Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What CRM and accounting software do beverage founders recommend?
Members use a mix of CRM and accounting tools depending on team size and specific needs. For CRM, **HubSpot** is frequently recommended for its free tier and ease of use, particularly for smaller teams. **Capsule** is favoured by some, though members note **Salesforce** becomes more suitable at scale (100+ sales team). **Bowimi** is also used and appreciated by the community. For accounting, **Xero** is the clear consensus choice—described as easy to use and well-integrated with other tools. Some members previously used **Sage** for its multi-tier pricing capability (allowing 5 different pricing structures per SKU), but have since migrated to Xero. **Breww** is recommended as manufacturing software that links directly into Xero, making it useful for production-focused beverage businesses. Key recommendations: - **HubSpot** — free CRM option; excellent for smaller teams - **Capsule** — solid mid-market CRM - **Salesforce** — preferred for larger sales teams (100+) - **Bowimi** — used successfully by members; complements HubSpot - **Xero** — strong consensus for accounting; easy to use and integrates well - **Breww** — manufacturing software that integrates with Xero - **Sage** — legacy option; supports complex multi-tier pricing if needed Members report using Xero and Breww together works well for manufacturing-focused beverage businesses.
How should CBILS/BBL loans affect business insurance renewal terms, and what should you do if insurers penalize borrowers?
Members report mixed experiences with insurance renewals after taking CBILS or BBL loans. Some had no issues with their bar/hospitality insurance despite the borrowing, but others have encountered negative renewal quotes that appear to penalize them specifically for taking out CBILS. **The recommended approach is to push back on the quote**: members who were quoted higher premiums or worse terms explicitly challenged their insurers rather than accepting the penalty. There is no indication from the community that CBILS/BBL borrowing should legitimately affect standard business insurance, and several members successfully renewed without issue, suggesting this may be an error or overly cautious underwriting by some providers. If you receive a penalising quote, contact your broker or insurer to query the reasoning and request a revised quote. Members also note frustration that many insurers failed to honour business interruption insurance claims during the COVID period, so expect pushback on claims generally.
Should alcohol duty be included in or excluded from margin calculations?
Whether to include duty depends on your purpose, but there are two distinct approaches: **For internal analysis and strategy:** Exclude duty from margin calculations. This approach is cleaner and more useful because: - It allows meaningful comparison across different channels (duty-free/export vs. UK domestic sales) - It keeps margins consistent when duty rates change—important because you typically can't pass duty rate increases directly to customers without them accepting the cost increase separately - It gives you a true picture of what's fundamentally changing in your business **For retail/wholesale customer discussions:** Include duty so your customer's margin calculations reflect their actual landed costs. **Key principle:** Members note that duty is not reclaimable like VAT, so it cannot be treated the same way. The standard approach among strategic-minded producers is to exclude duty when benchmarking gross margins, especially since duty rates vary hugely internationally. This avoids the problem where a duty rate change on 1 February (for example) would artificially depress your reported margin percentage despite nothing fundamentally changing in your operation. One member flagged that duty-suspended calculations are more complex and less commonly used.
What are the mortgage requirements and best approach for UK drinks business owners and company directors?
Getting a mortgage as a business owner is challenging but possible with the right broker and lender. Most mainstream lenders require 2 years of filed accounts, though this can sometimes be negotiated down to 1 year with specialist brokers and a larger deposit. **Key requirements:** - 2 years of filed accounts is the standard benchmark - Directors are typically counted as self-employed if they hold above a certain ownership threshold - Lenders can factor in company profits, though some require personal salary history from employment in the same industry - A higher deposit may be needed if you have fewer than 2 years' accounts **Recommended brokers and lenders:** - **Halifax** — noted as one of the most lenient high-street lenders for business owners - **Jennifer Ward** (cmme.co.uk, jennifer.ward@cmme.co.uk) — specialises in mortgages for directors - **Rosehill Financial Services** (sam@rosehillfs.com) — specialises in mortgages for directors - **Independent brokers** — members reported success using independent brokers who could negotiate terms; one member completed on a first-time buyer mortgage with only 1 year accounts via Halifax with broker support **Tactics:** - Use a specialist broker who understands director mortgages — they can often negotiate better terms than approaching lenders directly - If you have recent employment history in your industry, brokers can sometimes use previous years' salary alongside company accounts - Be prepared for higher deposit requirements if you don't meet the 2-year accounts threshold **Caveats:** Big institutional lenders often struggle with business owner applications and may require full company accounts. The process is more complex than standard employee mortgages and typically takes longer to arrange.
How should R&D tax credit claims be managed, and what specialists or accountants offer the best value?
Members report that R&D tax credit claims require significant internal work regardless of which specialist you use—don't expect a consultant to do all the legwork for you. Most members have found it pragmatic to route claims through their existing accountants for sign-off and final calculations rather than hiring dedicated R&D specialists, who often charge unpredictable rates and may push work back onto you anyway. **Typical approach:** Use your regular accountant to handle the claim preparation, paperwork, and enquiry insurance. Members report paying around **15% of the claim proceeds annually** for this service, which feels reasonable given the current variability in specialist pricing across the market. **Note on pricing:** The R&D tax credit market remains quite volatile in terms of what different firms charge—there's no clear standard rate. Some members are keeping an eye on potential shifts as the R&D claim structure itself may change, which could eventually rationalise pricing. If you want a personal recommendation for a specialist, ask in the group for a DM introduction, but go in with realistic expectations: you'll still need to document your R&D activities and rationale internally; the adviser will help structure and sign off, not do the archaeology for you.
What are the competitive fee structures and terms offered by different invoice discounting providers?
Invoice discounting fees vary significantly by provider and can often be negotiated. Here's what members have encountered: **Fee structures typically comprise two components:** - A service fee (usually 0.2–0.25% of the available facility) - A discount margin over base rate (typically 1.75–2.25%) **Specific provider quotes members shared:** - **Lloyds** — 0.2% service fee + 2.25% discount over base rate (with potential to negotiate the service fee lower) - **NatWest** (historical, several years ago) — ~1.75% margin over base + 0.25% facility fee, though the facility fee was negotiated down to a fixed amount and the bad-debt protection element was removed when the member used a separate credit insurer - **Aldermore** — members have used this at scale (seven figures annually) and found the fees "not uncomfortable" relative to cashflow benefits, though one member noted a competing **Credit Agricole** quote at 50% less than Aldermore's pricing **Negotiation tactics:** - Service fees are negotiable; members have successfully argued for lower or fixed fees by demonstrating that the full facility isn't needed year-round (e.g., only at peak seasonal periods) - Bundled bad-debt protection can be expensive; consider using a separate credit insurer and removing that fee element - Fees are heavily dependent on business profile and turnover; direct comparison between providers requires understanding your specific circumstances **Key caveat:** One member emphasized that while percentage-based fees might seem high in abstract terms, the cashflow benefit often justifies the cost for growing businesses.
What funding advisory and financing products are available for small drinks businesses?
Members have experience with advisory firms and purchase-order financing products, though approaches vary widely. **Advisory and financing models:** - **Retainer-based advisory firms** — Some firms charge £3–5k per month as a retainer while sourcing funding, with the retainer then deducted from the final funds raised (typically around 5% of funds raised). Members found this fee structure fairer than flat upfront payments. - **SFBO** — Members flagged this as a red flag: they request £10k upfront with a "guaranteed funding" promise, which several members felt resembled a scam. **Purchase-order financing:** - **Treyd** — Mentioned as a viable stock-funding option. - **Ferovinum** — Also funds stock, but members warned of ghosting issues; use with caution. - **Whisky-focused financiers** — Members noted that many PO financing providers they contacted were primarily focused on whisky, so mileage may vary for other drinks categories. **Caveats:** Members have explored PO financing over the years without concrete outcomes. Flat upfront fees (like SFBO's model) should be treated with skepticism. Retainer-based advisory tied to eventual fund-raising success appears more common in the community's experience.
What accounting and VAT services do members recommend, and which accountants specialise in the drinks industry?
Members recommend outsourcing VAT returns and accounting to specialists familiar with the drinks sector. The main recommendation that emerged from the community is: - **Chipchase Manners** — contact Graeme at this firm (chipchasemanners.co.uk). Members have used them for VAT returns and report positive experiences. Members also note that several accountants within the Kindred network offer these services and are happy to make introductions to their own providers if you reach out directly. The community practice is to ask for personal recommendations via direct message rather than relying on public discussion.
What outsourced payroll and finance solutions do members recommend for SMEs?
Members recommend a few established providers that cater to smaller businesses: - **Sage** — mentioned as a straightforward option for payroll and finance. - **SD Worx** — noted for having a decent SME offering. Members flagged a comparison site where you can input employee numbers and the platform will match you with suitable providers and arrange contact. - **Penrhos** — one member offered a direct introduction to the founder and sales director for those interested in exploring this option further. Members suggest leveraging existing LinkedIn connections when possible, or requesting introductions within the community if you know someone with a relationship to a provider.
What banks should a UK drinks business use, particularly for international transfers and bonded warehouse compatibility?
Banking for drinks businesses requires careful selection as no single provider excels across all needs. Members recommend having multiple bank accounts with different providers to spread risk and access specialised services. **Banks to avoid:** - **Barclays** — Multiple members reported serious problems, including poor handling of overdrafts and corporate relationships. Several described experiences as "horrible" and recommended avoiding "like the plague." **Recommended providers:** - **Virgin Money** — Praised for excellent in-branch service and quick, easy international transfers. - **Standard Chartered** — Recommended for international business operations. - **Starling** — Listed as a viable option, though members note it has both pros and cons like other providers. **Key considerations:** - **Bonded warehouse compatibility** — Members flagged that opening a bonded facility can create banking issues, so confirm your chosen bank can support bonded warehouse operations before committing. - **Multiple accounts strategy** — Members advise holding accounts with at least two providers: one optimised for international transfers and currency exchanges, and others with FSC protection as backup. This approach mitigates single-provider risk and ensures access to specialist services. - **No perfect solution** — Members acknowledged banking feels like "searching for the holy grail but [it] doesn't exist," with various providers having different merits depending on your specific needs. When selecting a bank, prioritise those with proven international transfer capability and confirm bonded warehouse compatibility upfront.
What currency transfer providers do members recommend as alternatives to Wise for international business payments?
Members have highlighted several alternatives to Wise with competitive rates for international transfers: - **Euro FX** — mentioned as offering better fees than Wise; members offered to make introductions. - **Currency UK** — can handle purchasing planning and rate-setting to secure the best available rate for transfers. - **Revolut** — suggested as an alternative option. Members also noted that having a dedicated currency broker can be valuable. One member recommended a personal contact (thea@dangerousdon.com) described as "really good" for brokerage services. The key tactic members used was requesting introductions through existing community contacts rather than approaching providers cold, suggesting relationship-based access may yield better rates or service.
What are the pros and cons of invoice discounting and other cash flow finance solutions for drinks businesses?
Invoice discounting can help with short-term cash flow, but members advise caution: it's easy to become dependent on it and difficult to stop using unless your business has exceptional growth and high gross profit margins. If you proceed, be aware you'll be sacrificing margin as a cost. Members recommend exploring alternative cash flow solutions before committing to invoice discounting: - **Aldermore Bank** — specialises in supporting drinks businesses, though the setup process involves extensive due diligence and audits, which can be lengthy and demanding. The key caveat from the community: unless your growth trajectory and margins are very strong, invoice discounting typically becomes a trap rather than a solution—you end up paying ongoing costs to solve structural cash flow problems rather than addressing the underlying issues.
What should a small drinks producer with 3 employees expect to pay for accountancy and bookkeeping services?
For a small producer with 3 employees, members suggest a reasonable range of **£700–£1,400 per annum** depending on the full scope of services required. Members also noted that specialist accountants with tiered pricing structures exist within the community network. One member reported working with accountants who offer **different levels of pricing** and have proven effective even for more complex setups (multiple entities, inter-company loans), describing them as "game changers" with "reasonable and great work/outputs." If you're facing a significant price increase from your current bookkeeper, this range provides a useful benchmark to assess whether the new quote is justified by expanded scope or an unreasonable jump.
What accountancy firms and services do members recommend for drinks business SMEs?
Members recommend a small number of specialist firms that understand drinks business accounting and offer scalable packages: - **Chipchase Manners** — contact Graeme at www.Chipchasemanners.co.uk - **Addition Finance** — ask for Graham or John; they offer flexible packages that scale as you grow. David from Black Sheep Spirits / Corte Vetusto Mezcal has referred members to them - **Virgate** — cloud-based accounting, though they specialise in retail and hospitality brands only The emphasis from members is on finding firms that understand the drinks sector specifically and can grow with you as an SME, rather than generic accountancy practices.