Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What are the current costs and options for under-bond deliveries, and how can we manage movement guarantees and bonded warehouse storage when consolidating operations?
Under-bond delivery costs have risen significantly across the industry, with pallets moving from around £100 to £250. Members report fuel surcharges have decreased to 4.95% (down from peaks of 18%), though bonded warehouse guarantee fees typically add an extra 25% on top of the net fee. **Movement guarantees and insurance:** - **Aon** (contact: james.ellison@aon.co.uk) — members broker movement guarantees through them; noted as paying for itself quickly, avoiding the need to pay full potential duty upfront or insure for excessive amounts. **For consolidated US operations:** - To hold stock in bond, you must be a UK-registered business. If operating as an overseas business, you'll need a UK duty representative—usually a paid service. - **Cadus Vaults** offers duty representative services, though currently only for cask storage, not finished goods. - **Proof Drinks** and **Tortuga** are mentioned as distributors with logistics business models (rather than pure agency) that may help with bonded logistics arrangements. **Caveat:** Members report you cannot simply shut down a UK subsidiary and hold finished goods under bond from an overseas entity—UK registration and a duty representative are mandatory requirements.
What are the current time restrictions on storing spirits in a bonded warehouse, and have the regulations changed?
Recent regulatory changes have removed previous time restrictions on bonded spirit storage. Members report that HMRC previously enforced a 30-day deadline for duty payment following the completion of rectifying, compounding, or marrying processes. However, this restriction has been officially removed, allowing unlimited storage of bonded gin and other spirits in approved facilities without time pressure. Key points: - **Previous rule**: Operations had to be completed within 30 days of the end of rectifying/compounding, after which duty-suspended products required duty payment - **Current position**: Time restrictions have been removed; members can now store bonded spirits for unlimited periods - **How to confirm**: The change is documented in HMRC Notice 196, section 4.2. Members recommend contacting HMRC directly or consulting with advisors (such as those at the BDA) to get official confirmation and have your specific warehouse approval updated if needed - **Caveat**: HMRC does not actively publicise these changes. Members suggest reaching out directly to confirm your facility's position, especially if your warehouse approval predates 2021 One member noted this was completely new territory for them despite having experienced staff, so it's worth clarifying with your specific HMRC contact rather than assuming existing approvals reflect current rules.
Which bonded warehouses do members recommend for startups, and how do their pricing and service compare?
Members consistently recommend a small number of bonded warehouse providers, with clear preferences based on service quality and pricing. **Key providers members recommend:** - **LAW** — Multiple members strongly prefer LAW over competitors. Stan (a named contact) is highlighted as excellent and responsive. Members report better service and pricing compared to LCB. One member has been with LAW for 7 years. Note: LAW may currently be capacity-constrained and unable to take on new clients. - **LCB** — Available option but members report higher case pricing compared to alternatives like LAW, making it a less competitive choice if cost is a primary concern. - **Europa** — Described as pretty reliable and responsive, though less detail provided on pricing or suitability for startups. **Pricing caveat:** Members note that "pricing is definitely apples and oranges" between providers, so direct quotes are essential. One member warned they're paying "case price which is crazy" with their current provider, suggesting you should negotiate terms carefully. **Service note:** The quality of account management appears variable. Stan at LAW is specifically praised for his knowledge and engagement, suggesting relationship quality matters as much as headline pricing. For scaling startups, members suggest getting direct quotes from LAW, Europa, and potentially LCB, but prioritise LAW as first choice based on this community's experience.