Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can short-run supplies of cans be sourced at short notice?
Members have successfully sourced short-run cans through specialist suppliers and contract packers, though lead times are often tight. Recommended contacts include: Home Canning (Allan, homecanningltd@gmail.com) — described as "older than old school" with an awful website but worth trying for emergency stock; Canit (Craig, Production@canit.co.uk), though they can be in and out of stock; and Premier Labellers (Matthew.gonzalez@premierlabellers.co.uk), who handle non-bonded stock at short runs. Bespoke Canners (robin@bespokecanners.com, contact Robin Hale) was recommended for can-sleeving work at short notice. Blue Frog was also suggested but members found them similarly constrained by long lead times (October+). For contract packing/sleeving, Blisters (blisters.ltd.uk) was praised though availability varies. Members noted that even specialist suppliers are often booked out months in advance in the current market; one member offering a pallet of 9k cans shows the community sometimes helps each other directly. Quantities as low as 6k have been requested successfully. Non-bonded stock appears acceptable if you're insured and comply with your insurance terms.
Where can members source packaging components (cardboard cases, cans, bottles, closures, cups) and what are typical pricing, MOQs and lead times?
Members source cardboard cases through Playford at approximately 30p per unbranded case plus 20p for inserts (4-colour print, double-walled board, suitable for courier); MOQ is typically 5,000 units. For cans, 250ml slim cans and 200ml cans are currently difficult to source; members recommend asking in the group as some hold stock. For small-quantity glass bottles, members work with Verallia/Allied in Leeds (contact Elle Prescott at fiona.prescott@verallia.co.uk, preferred over Nolan Kane who is slow). For 5cl PET/RPET bottles, members recommend Diamond, Future Pro, Hutch, and Fodabox; however, Future Pro reportedly has high prices. For custom corks and closures, members warn that Labrenta and Berlin have massive lead times (5–6 months); members are seeking alternatives but specific options are limited. For branded eco-friendly cups, members used Cupprint successfully. For urgent stock and specialist items (ROPP caps, bottle stoppers, closures), members recommend reaching out directly to the group as availability is unpredictable and lead times are often extended across suppliers. Logistics: standard 20ft containers hold 10 pallets of bottles. For EU/international shipments, use forwarders like Mannson who handle both Far East and European road freight and can advise on Brexit customs paperwork.
Where can UK drinks makers source stubby steel cans, and which canning lines can handle them?
Stubby steel cans are sourced from China and remain a niche format in the UK market. **Whitebox** is the main known UK operator using them, and they offer white-label canning services—members recommend reaching out to them directly or requesting an introduction through the community. Members note that very few canning lines currently handle the stubby format, so availability is limited. Whitebox uses DHL for distribution outside London, which members found reliable within London but experienced occasional delivery issues during peak periods (e.g. Christmas), so factor in potential logistics delays for remote areas.
Where can UK drinks brands source miniature 5cl bottles and 200ml slimline cans with reasonable lead times?
**Miniature 5cl bottles for urgent orders:** - **Pattersons Glass** (pattesonsglass.co.uk) — recommended as a potential source for miniature bottles; members have successfully contacted them for pre-Christmas deliveries of around 2000 units. - **East London Drinks** — members indicated they may be able to help with miniature bottle orders; direct contact recommended via PM. **200ml slimline cans:** - **Artisan** (via contract packer) — supplies 200ml cans with printing MOQs of 250k units, but converted stock does not need to be finished all at once. Fewer print runs are available for 200ml versus the more popular 250ml slim format, which can create supply constraints. - Members note that 200ml slimline cans present a narrower market with fewer suppliers than standard 250ml formats, making consistent supply more challenging. **Key caveat:** The 200ml slimline format has limited printing availability compared to 250ml alternatives, so lead times and MOQ commitments should be confirmed early with suppliers.
What are the current MOQs and where can we source printed and wrapped RTD cans in the UK?
Printed cans currently have very high minimum order quantities—members report that printed options are difficult to access under 300,000 units, making them impractical for many small producers right now. For wrapped and labelled cans at more manageable volumes, the picture is better: - **Wrapped/labelled cans** — Achievable from around 12,000 units upwards; several members confirmed this is viable and indicated willingness to share specific supplier contacts direct message. - **Oasthouse** — Named as a potential supplier, though members also flagged significant operational challenges; one noted "Oasthouse are generally a nuisance to deal with" and another reported that Bloody Drinks had "a nightmare" going through them. Use with caution. - **Crown** — Previously used by members but their MOQs were reported as "getting crazy earlier this year," making them less competitive. - **Ball** — Members asked for contacts but no specific feedback was provided in the discussion. **Key caveat:** The printed-can market is tight right now. Members described it as "a nightmare" and advised that achieving true printed cans under 300,000 units is "very tough" or not currently possible. Wrapped or labelled alternatives are the realistic short-term option for smaller runs.
Where can we find relabelling services for canned stock?
Members recommend a handful of established suppliers for can relabelling work: - **WeLaunch** — can facilitate introductions to relabelling partners - **Codex Solutions** — used by members for ad hoc, duty-paid relabelling work; noted as very flexible - **Bev Pack Supply** (based in Herefordshire) — members confirm they offer relabelling services; contact details available through the community For smaller batches or one-off projects, **Codex Solutions** appears to be the go-to recommendation. For larger or ongoing needs, **Bev Pack Supply** is worth approaching directly.
What are the typical minimum order quantities for custom printed or sleeved cans?
The major can suppliers (Crown, Ball, Ardagh) typically have high MOQs that make small-run launches challenging. For limited releases under 10,000 units: - **Oasthouse Engineering** — specifically mentioned as a supplier for small MOQ cans, recommended for shorter runs - **Sleeved/labelled cans** — considered more achievable than fully printed cans for smaller quantities - **Standard printed cans** — major suppliers (Crown, Ball, Ardagh) start at 50,000+ minimum order quantities Members working on launches of 5–10,000 units were advised to explore sleeved alternatives or contact specialists like Oasthouse Engineering rather than the large-scale producers. For specifics on your run size and format, direct outreach to suppliers is recommended.
Can I access a shrink wrap machine for cans, or should I buy one?
At least one member has a shrinkwrapping machine available at their warehouse that is still operational and has shrink-wrap plastic in stock. Members asking about small, affordable machines for in-house shrink wrapping of can trays should explore whether they can access shared equipment through the community first before investing in their own.
Where can I source small-volume blank cans for low-batch RTD cocktail products?
Finding small-volume can suppliers is challenging, as the major manufacturers have high minimum order quantities. Members recommend: - **Oasthouse Engineering** — confirmed to handle low volumes. Contact: 01709 780675 or canorders@oasthouseengineering.co.uk Larger suppliers to avoid for small batches include Ardagh, Ball, Crown, and Canit, all of which have very high MOQs that make them unsuitable for low-volume producers. Members also suggest requesting design templates from other producers in the community to streamline the ordering process.
Where can we source printed cardboard trays for slim canned formats (250ml) at reasonable prices in bulk?
Members report that printed trays for slim cans are often expensive through standard channels (one member cited £0.36 per tray for 12 x 250ml format). The most practical route appears to be working directly through your canning supplier, who often have established relationships with tray manufacturers and can source these as part of a wider production run. **Key options:** - **Direct via your canning supplier** — several members source printed trays through their existing canning partner (e.g. one member sources 200ml trays this way), which tends to simplify logistics and may unlock better pricing through volume bundling - **Direct manufacturer enquiry** — members suggest approaching tray manufacturers directly to access bulk pricing typically used by large-scale producers, rather than going through intermediaries **Caveats:** The price point of £0.36 per tray suggests members may be buying in sub-optimal volumes or through non-specialist channels. Working with your canner or a dedicated tray manufacturer as a bulk buyer appears to be the community's preferred approach to reach competitive per-unit costs on printed trays.
What is the correct conversion rate for cans to 9L case equivalents for regulatory reporting?
Members use different approaches depending on whether they're converting packaged cans or calculating spirit equivalents for RTD/cocktail products. **For canned beverages:** The straightforward method is to divide physical case sales by 3. Since 12 × 250ml cans = 3L in a physical case, three physical cases = 9L case equivalent. So simply divide your invoiced physical sales by 3 to get your 9L reporting figure. **For RTD and spirit-based products:** Members use volume-based equivalency rather than a fixed ratio: - **Diageo's historical approach** — used 10× the volume as a case equivalent (so 90L of RTD = 1 × 9L case equivalent), based on the logic that spirits are ~40% ABV and RTDs are roughly 1/10th of that strength. - **Actual spirit content method** — some members calculate based on the actual spirit volume used to create the product. For example, if a 20L KeyKeg of a spirit-based RTD contains enough to make 125 cocktails with 4cl spirit each, that's 5L of spirit equivalent to report—described as "probably not the 'right' way" but "very logical and it works." **Caveat:** Members noted uncertainty about which is the "official" method for regulatory purposes, so clarifying with your local regulatory body (HMRC/equivalent) on which approach they expect is recommended.
Should we use single or double wall boxes for shipping canned drinks to e-commerce customers?
Double wall boxes are the clear recommendation from members shipping cans direct to consumers. Single wall boxes risk damage during transit—cans need packaging that can survive being dropped and thrown around by couriers. **Recommended approach:** - **Double wall boxes** — strongly preferred over single wall; members report still experiencing some damage even with double wall, so single is not adequate - **Dividers for smaller orders** — use cardboard dividers to prevent cans moving around within the box - **Packing material for larger orders** — use cardboard or straw to fill empty space in boxes with room to move, reducing impact damage - **Secondary boxing** — some members use single wall boxes repacked into a secondary outer box, though they note this may not be the most efficient approach **Key caveat:** Even double wall boxes result in some customer damage claims, so the packaging system needs to be as robust as possible given courier handling realities.