Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can members source packaging components (cardboard cases, cans, bottles, closures, cups) and what are typical pricing, MOQs and lead times?
Members source cardboard cases through Playford at approximately 30p per unbranded case plus 20p for inserts (4-colour print, double-walled board, suitable for courier); MOQ is typically 5,000 units. For cans, 250ml slim cans and 200ml cans are currently difficult to source; members recommend asking in the group as some hold stock. For small-quantity glass bottles, members work with Verallia/Allied in Leeds (contact Elle Prescott at fiona.prescott@verallia.co.uk, preferred over Nolan Kane who is slow). For 5cl PET/RPET bottles, members recommend Diamond, Future Pro, Hutch, and Fodabox; however, Future Pro reportedly has high prices. For custom corks and closures, members warn that Labrenta and Berlin have massive lead times (5–6 months); members are seeking alternatives but specific options are limited. For branded eco-friendly cups, members used Cupprint successfully. For urgent stock and specialist items (ROPP caps, bottle stoppers, closures), members recommend reaching out directly to the group as availability is unpredictable and lead times are often extended across suppliers. Logistics: standard 20ft containers hold 10 pallets of bottles. For EU/international shipments, use forwarders like Mannson who handle both Far East and European road freight and can advise on Brexit customs paperwork.
What are the typical import duties, logistics costs, and practical options for importing glass bottles from European suppliers?
Import duties on glass are minimal—members report tens of pounds per pallet rather than significant tariffs. The major cost driver is transport: a single pallet can cost £450, making full truck loads significantly more cost-effective. Members using postponed import VAT accounting avoid upfront VAT; ask suppliers for proof of country of origin to enable this. **Supplier & logistics options:** - **Estal** — popular choice with good stock availability and fast turnarounds; they're opening a UK depot (timeline vague at time of discussion), but smaller orders may not be included in early shipments. Contact **Jonathan Clark** (jonathanc@continentalbottle.co.uk) who handles UK distribution for Estal and may offer better pricing for smaller quantities than direct ordering. - **IP21** — recommended for European sourcing; generally straightforward to work with (not the quickest) and will direct you to **Davies Turner** for import logistics, who members report are good to work with. - **KC Shipping** — noted as the cheapest and reliable freight option at time of discussion, undercutting other providers by hundreds of pounds; they maintain good stock availability. - **Saver Glass** — one member paid £35 import duty on a pallet. **Caveats:** Estal's textured glass with cold-end coating and embossing can have label adhesion difficulties. One member warned that Estal "don't always stick to agreements even if signed" regarding stock delivery. Berlin Packaging was cited as a cautionary tale for poor-quality glass. For NPD trials with small quantities (e.g., 2 pallets), transport costs become a significant proportion of total spend.
Should we source glass from China or use UK manufacturers, and what are the alternative suppliers beyond the major established brands?
The community recommends UK glass manufacturers over China for most producers, despite China's cheaper mould costs and quick turnaround. Freight costs from China have risen significantly and may eliminate unit-cost savings; UK suppliers offer better credit terms, stock holding, and consistency. **UK manufacturers:** - **Stoelzle** — recommended particularly for blue glass; can amortise mould costs and offer credit/stock holding - **Allied** — established UK manufacturer with similar benefits to Stoelzle - **Saverglass** — praised for reliability; can handle painting and screenprinting for orders over 5,000 bottles, useful for scaling - **Encirc** — alternative UK supplier - **Vetroelite** — alternative UK supplier **China sourcing trade-offs (if considering):** - Pros: cheaper mould costs, quick production turnaround, slightly lower unit costs - Cons: container freight from China now "completely mad" cost-wise, shipping time, upfront payment required, must take full delivery at once, quality inconsistency **Caveat:** Freight costs from China have risen to a point where they may fully offset any unit-cost advantage. Members advised wariness about this route at present. For "off the shelf" stock, contact the UK suppliers directly (e.g. Louis at Stoelzle).
What percentage of post-consumer recycled content is typically in glass, card, and aluminium caps for drinks packaging?
Members have shared these typical recycled content percentages from their suppliers: - **Glass (standard flint)** — approximately 48% post-consumer recycled content. Your glass supplier should be able to provide the specific recycled content spec for your particular bottle if you ask (members note: you may need to ask more than once). - **Card** — approximately 80% recycled content according to member suppliers. - **Aluminium caps** — on average 50% recycled material. Members recommend requesting a sustainability report and detailed specifications directly from your supplier, as recycled content can vary by bottle type and production run. Allied Glass publishes sustainability reports that may help with benchmarking.
Where can we source glass bottles (35cl, 375ml, and used/recycled) in the UK, and what are the typical suppliers and contacts?
Members have identified a few UK suppliers for off-the-shelf bottles, though availability varies. For custom or bulk orders, China remains an option but requires careful quality control. **UK suppliers for stock bottles:** - **Chapman (AEC Chapman)** — Contact Andre at aec@aechapman.com or 020 7622 4414 (email response can be slow). Confirmed to stock 35cl bottles. - **Bruni** — Reported to have some 35cl availability. - **Stoelzle, Allied, Croxsons** — Members tried these for 35cl but reported limited help. **Custom/bulk sourcing:** - **Chinese manufacturers** — Recent pricing for a custom 500g spirits bottle (Super Flint glass) came in at $0.42 USD per piece FOB for 18,000-piece loads (40HQ container). Mold fees: $650 for sample mold, $1,500 for bulk mold. Timeline: 3 weeks for sample mold, 1 week for samples, 3 weeks for bulk mold, 2 weeks for mass production. Members noted prices have dropped significantly (containers previously $14k), making them more viable, but quality control is a major trade-off risk. **Used/de-labelled bottles:** One member asked about sourcing used, cleaned, de-labelled bottles, but the discussion did not yield confirmed suppliers—the question was raised but no concrete recommendations followed. **Caveats:** Standard UK suppliers (Stoelzle, Allied, Croxsons) may not stock every size. For 375ml specifically, no confirmed UK supplier emerged from the discussion. Chinese options require upfront mold investment and longer lead times, with potential quality issues to manage.
How can I source bespoke glass stoppers from Asian manufacturers?
Members recommend reaching out directly to community contacts who have established relationships with Asian glass manufacturers. - **Direct contact via community network** — Members with existing partnerships offer to make introductions. Several members noted they have active supplier relationships for glass heads/stoppers and are happy to facilitate introductions via DM. - **One-to-one calls with experienced members** — Those who have recently completed sourcing (within the last few months) are available to share process details and supplier contacts on a call. The approach is brokered through private introductions rather than open sourcing platforms. No specific manufacturer names or pricing details were shared in the discussion, but members indicated the process is straightforward enough that they retain "a lot of the detail still to hand" after completing their own sourcing.
What is the carbon footprint of different glass bottle weights, and how much does reusing bottles reduce emissions?
Glass production carries a measurable carbon cost. **1.25g CO2 per gram of glass** is a widely referenced benchmark, originating from a 2007–10 US study by GPI and supported by similar findings in Bogaard et al (2014), though the figure varies depending on recycled content and transport distances. Bottle weights vary significantly: spirits bottles typically range from 765g (lightweight) to 920g (Long Island standard), while wine bottles often sit below 500g. **Reuse is dramatically more effective than recycling.** Members report that glass reused 7–10 times is considered to have near-zero incremental CO2 impact, though this specific claim lacks readily available published sources. One member has been running a bottle return scheme since 2018 and reports collecting up to 1,000 bottles annually. **Practical reuse strategies:** - **Local collection loops** — the most viable approach; one member works with local retailers (who offer consumers money off for returns) and local pubs (bottles collected during regular visits to avoid extra journeys) - **Consumer incentives** — offering donations to charity for returned bottles, or discounts at point of purchase - **Avoid national logistics** — most distributors struggle to handle returns at scale, so schemes only work regionally **Key caveat:** Transport distance and recycled-content percentages materially affect the baseline CO2 figure for any given bottle, making site-specific calculations essential. The research in this area is under constant review and relatively dated.