Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What are the key differences between getting listed on Ocado versus Waitrose, and what should I expect in terms of volume, costs, and online competition?
**Volume:** Ocado typically delivers around 1/10th the volume of Waitrose at full distribution, making Waitrose the significantly larger opportunity for most brands. **Joint Business Plans (JBPs):** Both retailers require JBPs for at least the first few months of stocking. These outline your investment in marketing support, PR, and social media activity, and cover promotional spend and margin maintenance. **Online Competition:** Both retailers bid on your brand terms in Google search auctions, which can drive up your PPC costs. This is particularly worth monitoring if you're primarily D2C—retailers like Ocado, Waitrose, and others (including Holland & Barrett, NOTHS) may compete with you for branded keywords, with the competitive landscape changing weekly. Members report this varies in impact; some haven't noticed significant problems while others track weekly changes in auction participation. **Caveats:** The discussion suggests online bidding behaviour is inconsistent and worth monitoring directly via PPC reports rather than assuming it will be a major issue. Specific discount structures and "pay-to-play" costs weren't detailed in the community feedback.
Where can founders find suitable Christmas and seasonal market stands?
Members recommend checking **Truman Brewery** in London, which hosts a Christmas bar and food market at the end of November. One member noted they received a sales deck for this event and could forward details, suggesting the organisers actively recruit vendors. This is a useful entry point for brands looking to test seasonal retail activation.
Should a premium indie spirit brand (£55+ price point) sell through Amazon at the early growth stage, and how does it affect pricing with other retailers?
The community consensus is to **delay Amazon entry** until you've established price floor with premium retailers first. Amazon's vendor model can undercut your positioning and lock you into a lower price point across all channels. **Strategy:** Build distribution through higher-margin channels before Amazon: - **The Wine Emporium (TWE)** — recommended as a first-tier premium retailer; members report being stocked in their stores - **Hedonism Wines** — another high-end retailer to secure placement with early - **MOM (Majestic/other premium lists)** — establish relationships here to set baseline pricing - **Hard to Find Whiskies (Birmingham)** — independent premium retailer praised for quality customer base **If/when you do Amazon:** - Research competitor brands at your price point to see how they're positioned - **Own your own listing** rather than letting third-party sellers list you (which erodes control) - Consider **creating exclusive SKUs for independent retailers** and explicitly excluding those from Amazon to preserve differentiation - Be aware that if Amazon acts as a vendor, they can and will crash your price if sales don't meet their targets—and that floor price then becomes your negotiating position with all other retailers **Key caveat:** Members flagged that "lots of indies complain about Amazon pricing," suggesting it's a common pain point. The timing of entry matters more than the entry itself; establish your brand and retail relationships first, then you have leverage.
What bonded third-party logistics providers do members recommend for retail distribution of drinks?
Members recommend several bonded warehouse and logistics providers for handling retail pallets and distribution to major retailers and wholesalers. The key consideration is pricing structure—avoid providers who charge purely on a per-case basis without acknowledging pallet economics. **Recommended providers:** - **LAW Distribution** — recommended as the cheapest overall with very good service. Contact Stan Moyser at Stan.Moyser@lawdistribution.co.uk - **Chichester Bond / MSX** — mentioned as a solid second choice for service quality - **Belvedere (BWA Logistics Ltd)** — located in Kent, www.belvederewarehousing.com **Caveat:** Members specifically warned against **LCB** because they charge purely on a per-case basis without acknowledging pallet economics (e.g., 372 cases per pallet), making their pricing model poor value for retail-scale distribution.