Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can short-run supplies of cans be sourced at short notice?
Members have successfully sourced short-run cans through specialist suppliers and contract packers, though lead times are often tight. Recommended contacts include: Home Canning (Allan, homecanningltd@gmail.com) — described as "older than old school" with an awful website but worth trying for emergency stock; Canit (Craig, Production@canit.co.uk), though they can be in and out of stock; and Premier Labellers (Matthew.gonzalez@premierlabellers.co.uk), who handle non-bonded stock at short runs. Bespoke Canners (robin@bespokecanners.com, contact Robin Hale) was recommended for can-sleeving work at short notice. Blue Frog was also suggested but members found them similarly constrained by long lead times (October+). For contract packing/sleeving, Blisters (blisters.ltd.uk) was praised though availability varies. Members noted that even specialist suppliers are often booked out months in advance in the current market; one member offering a pallet of 9k cans shows the community sometimes helps each other directly. Quantities as low as 6k have been requested successfully. Non-bonded stock appears acceptable if you're insured and comply with your insurance terms.
Which pallet delivery networks offer timed slots and how do their services and pricing compare?
The major pallet networks in the UK are **Palletline**, **Palletways**, **Palletforce**, **The Pallet Network**, and **Pallex**. You typically work through a local member company within the network rather than direct. For timed or weekend slots specifically: - **Palletline** is the largest network and generally best for timed, weekend, and late slots - **Palletforce** works well for specific channels (e.g. Amazon) and operates as a smaller network with fewer log jams at Amazon depots - **Pallet Online** was noted as "ridiculously expensive" by one member A cost-saving tactic: if you can identify which individual haulier is picking up your pallets through Pallet Online or another network, you can contact them directly and potentially cut out the middleman. Caveats: All hauliers are currently experiencing capacity issues. Many are not guaranteeing timed slots or even next-day delivery, so availability of premium services has tightened recently.
Should we source glass from China or use UK manufacturers, and what are the alternative suppliers beyond the major established brands?
The community recommends UK glass manufacturers over China for most producers, despite China's cheaper mould costs and quick turnaround. Freight costs from China have risen significantly and may eliminate unit-cost savings; UK suppliers offer better credit terms, stock holding, and consistency. **UK manufacturers:** - **Stoelzle** — recommended particularly for blue glass; can amortise mould costs and offer credit/stock holding - **Allied** — established UK manufacturer with similar benefits to Stoelzle - **Saverglass** — praised for reliability; can handle painting and screenprinting for orders over 5,000 bottles, useful for scaling - **Encirc** — alternative UK supplier - **Vetroelite** — alternative UK supplier **China sourcing trade-offs (if considering):** - Pros: cheaper mould costs, quick production turnaround, slightly lower unit costs - Cons: container freight from China now "completely mad" cost-wise, shipping time, upfront payment required, must take full delivery at once, quality inconsistency **Caveat:** Freight costs from China have risen to a point where they may fully offset any unit-cost advantage. Members advised wariness about this route at present. For "off the shelf" stock, contact the UK suppliers directly (e.g. Louis at Stoelzle).
Where can UK drinks brands source miniature 5cl bottles and 200ml slimline cans with reasonable lead times?
**Miniature 5cl bottles for urgent orders:** - **Pattersons Glass** (pattesonsglass.co.uk) — recommended as a potential source for miniature bottles; members have successfully contacted them for pre-Christmas deliveries of around 2000 units. - **East London Drinks** — members indicated they may be able to help with miniature bottle orders; direct contact recommended via PM. **200ml slimline cans:** - **Artisan** (via contract packer) — supplies 200ml cans with printing MOQs of 250k units, but converted stock does not need to be finished all at once. Fewer print runs are available for 200ml versus the more popular 250ml slim format, which can create supply constraints. - Members note that 200ml slimline cans present a narrower market with fewer suppliers than standard 250ml formats, making consistent supply more challenging. **Key caveat:** The 200ml slimline format has limited printing availability compared to 250ml alternatives, so lead times and MOQ commitments should be confirmed early with suppliers.
What pricing structure should producers, wholesalers, and retailers use to ensure adequate margins at each level in the spirits supply chain?
Members shared a community-created pricing model spreadsheet that maps out margin requirements across the supply chain when working backwards from a retail RRP. **Key resource:** The community maintains a shared Google spreadsheet that calculates required COGS, wholesale, and retail price points based on a target RRP and desired margin percentages at each level. This allows producers to determine what manufacturing cost they need to hit to ensure wholesalers and retailers each take their cut. **Important consideration:** The spreadsheet uses markup calculations for wholesale pricing (e.g., dividing by 1.2 to reflect a 20% markup), which differs from the margin calculation method used for retail. Members note this distinction matters—markup and margin are calculated differently. Clarify whether your business model thinks in terms of markup or margin percentage, as this affects how you apply the formula. **Access:** Request the current version from the community (the spreadsheet link is maintained collectively and may be updated). Members are actively refining the model and discussing the mechanics, so asking in the group will get you the latest version with any corrections applied. **Caveats:** The calculations assume standard VAT treatment and work backwards from RRP. The exact margins required may vary by channel (independent retailers vs. multiple retailers), product category, and distribution method, so treat the model as a framework to adapt rather than a fixed rule.
What are the quality and logistics risks of sourcing glass bottles from China?
Multiple members have sourced bottles from China and consistently report significant hidden costs that outweigh initial savings. While quality can be acceptable, logistics and preparation issues create substantial friction. **Key risks identified:** - **Cleanliness issues** — Bottles arrive dirty and oily, requiring machine washing before bottling; described as very common - **Quality control inconsistency** — Fill-level and neck-diameter tolerances are unreliable and occasionally problematic - **Lead times** — Shipments are slow to reach the UK, often creating bottlenecks - **Freight cost creep** — Any cost savings from lower unit prices are typically wiped out by air freight charges needed to meet production deadlines - **Damaged/delayed shipments** — Occasional delays and damage reported across multiple runs **Member consensus:** Several members have moved away from Chinese sourcing entirely, shifting back to UK production. The consensus is that apparent cost savings rarely materialise once preparation time, rework, and expedited shipping are factored in. Members describe lessons learned "the hard way" and now view onshoring as the more predictable route.
Which B2B fulfillment and logistics companies do members recommend in the UK?
Members recommend a small number of tested fulfillment partners, mostly based on personal referrals. The main caveat is to avoid one well-known provider. - **Cloud Fulfilment** (Portsmouth-based) — recommended by a member whose friend uses them for e-commerce logistics and found them reliable - **Local Cardiff-based provider** — a member has direct experience and offered to share details via direct message - **Huboo** — members strongly advise against; multiple warnings to "AVOID" Members emphasize that personal referrals are the most trusted route for finding fulfillment partners, and suggest reaching out directly in the group for introductions rather than cold-calling.
What is the current state of the UK small-scale canning market, and which co-packers are reliable for short-run 250ml slim can filling?
The UK small-scale canning market is described as 'the Wild West' with significant reliability issues. Several members have had poor experiences with co-packers and are actively seeking alternatives. **Current options for short-run 250ml slim can filling:** - **Envirocan** — mentioned as a brand-new option with quick turnaround capability, recommended for emergency runs **Market state:** - Multiple members report ongoing issues with canning co-packers, with at least one describing serious "malpractice" that caused operational disruption - Some members indicated they have canning capacity in-house but at larger volumes (250,000+ cans per SKU), suggesting capacity is fragmented - The community identified a need for dedicated peer-to-peer knowledge-sharing on canning operations and supplier reliability due to repeated problems **Caveats:** - Several members noted they cannot yet publicly name problem suppliers as they are still collecting stock or managing active relationships, but have committed to sharing details post-delivery - Capacity for sub-1,000 unit runs at short notice is severely limited; most members work at volumes significantly higher than 3–5k units - Members are actively exploring creating a dedicated subgroup for canning/production operations chat to collectively track supplier performance and share experiences
Which courier services are most reliable for DTC ecommerce fulfillment, and how should we plan around Royal Mail strikes?
Members have tested multiple couriers for DTC fulfilment and strike resilience. The consensus is to run parallel options rather than rely on a single carrier. **Tested couriers:** - **Yodel** — recommended by members as reliable; several have had good experiences - **DPD** — tested and viable; mentioned as an option to keep available - **Parcel Force** — tested in comparison - **Hermes** — flagged as problematic; one member called it "an absolute disaster" **Strike planning:** For Royal Mail strikes (e.g. November strikes), members recommend testing **Yodel** as a primary alternative, with **DPD** as a backup option and willingness to pay extra for expedited service when needed. **Packaging note:** Members warned that courier selection is only part of the picture. One reported £4k of stock not arriving over 2 weeks and traced the root cause to **Codestorm packaging** (the packaging supplier, not the courier). Members noted that getting refunds from Codestorm for mistakes is difficult; the advice was to "stay on them all the time" rather than expect automatic compensation. **Caveat:** Members have not reported successful fee reductions or compensation claims against couriers for strike-related delays, suggesting these should be treated as accepted risk factors rather than negotiable issues.
Which ERP systems are recommended for beverage companies managing global sales and supply chain?
Members running beverage businesses have recommended two specific platforms: - **SAP B1** — cloud-based version of SAP used by major global drinks companies. Praised for comprehensive functionality at lower cost than the full enterprise system (avoids the £15–20k server requirement of traditional SAP). Suitable for scaling operations with global reach. - **Bevica** (bevica.com) — a beverage-specific ERP. Members use this for supply chain and sales management. The original question also mentioned **Catalyst** as a consideration, though no direct user feedback was shared in the discussion. SAP B1's cloud deployment and lower capex barrier make it accessible to growing producers, while Bevica offers industry-specific features.
Where should UK drinks founders relocate their supply chains away from China, and what are viable low-cost alternatives?
Members who have recently diversified supply chains report success with Turkey as a credible middle-ground option. Turkey offers significantly lower costs than domestic UK production, faster lead times, and avoids the extended shipping delays via the Red Sea that come with Chinese sourcing. Several members are currently working with Turkish packaging suppliers and report positive early results, though verification of supplier reliability is ongoing. Members advise requesting direct contact details from peers who have tested suppliers before committing to large orders, as trust-building and performance validation are critical in the early stages of new supply relationships.