Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What is the best approach and cost for renewing trademark registrations in the UK and Europe?
Trademark renewal is straightforward DIY in the UK but requires more careful navigation for EU protection post-Brexit. Members report significant cost variation depending on whether you handle it yourself or use legal support. **UK trademark renewal:** - **DIY via the official UK Intellectual Property Office website** — several members completed this themselves and found it manageable with internet research; no lawyer needed - **Lawyer quotes** — expect £900 + VAT for UK-only renewal through traditional IP lawyers (though this appears on the higher end) **EU trademark renewal (post-Brexit):** - **DIY via Madrid Protocol** — members recommend registering the original trademark in the UK first, then applying for the Madrid Protocol to cover multiple countries in one application; described as "easier" than handling each country separately - **Polish lawyer option** — one member recommended a lawyer in Poland who can handle all EU countries for under £500, significantly cheaper than UK law firm quotes - **Processing time** — expect approximately 6 weeks turnaround from placing the order **Strategic considerations:** - Members suggest protecting your brand across export markets proactively, even if you haven't actively exported yet, to prevent future brand conflicts (one member cited a costly dispute when a competitor launched a similar product) - The Madrid Protocol approach allows you to cover multiple EU countries "in one hit," reducing administrative complexity **Caveat:** The lawyer quotes in the excerpts (£1,800 + VAT for UK and Europe; £900 + VAT for UK only) appear to be at the premium end; the Polish lawyer route and DIY options suggest these are not competitive market rates.
What are the costs and recommended approaches for trademark registration in the US, UK, EU, and internationally?
US trademark registration typically costs **£1,500–2,000** for a simple mark; members recommend requesting a referral to a specialist trademark provider. **UK and post-Brexit international options:** - **UK IPO (gov.uk/how-to-register-a-trade-mark)** — approximately £170 per application, covers UK only - **EU trademark renewal** — approximately £1,600 plus professional fees (note: no longer covered by UK registration post-Brexit) - **WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization)** — recommended for worldwide protection as it allows adding territories incrementally as needed. Members have successfully applied via WIPO and found it valuable for longer-term international expansion. One member noted that a colleague (Joe Beeble) led a WIPO application for their brand within the last 12 months and was willing to share experience. **Key takeaway:** Members suggest starting with WIPO if planning international expansion, as it offers flexibility to add territories over time at a lower incremental cost than handling each region separately. For EU coverage specifically post-Brexit, expect the £1,600+ figure as a separate line item from UK protection.
What is a reasonable duration for an NDA when partnering on product recipes, and is a 5-year term a red flag?
Members offered mixed perspectives on NDA duration and necessity in the FMCG sector. **Duration:** - A 5-year NDA limit was questioned by the person asking, though no consensus emerged on whether this is unreasonably long or short for recipe partnerships. **Broader perspective on NDAs in FMCG:** - Several members expressed scepticism about the practical value of NDAs in the drinks/FMCG space, arguing that recipes and formulations are rarely truly proprietary and that enforcement is difficult if disputes arise. - The view was raised that in practice, business relationships often rely more on trust and informal agreements ("handshake and gentlemen's agreement") than formal contracts, because legal enforcement is costly and damages relationships irreparably. - One member noted that "brand is different"—suggesting brand-related IP may warrant more protection than recipe IP alone. **Caveat:** The community discussion did not provide specific guidance on standard NDA durations in the industry, so the 5-year term was not benchmarked against common practice. If recipe confidentiality is material to your partnership, consulting a solicitor familiar with FMCG licensing may be wise.
What firms and approaches do founders use to protect trademarks and intellectual property, and what should we consider when filing?
Members recommend engaging specialist IP law firms early to guide trademark applications and ensure broad category coverage for future product development. **Recommended IP law firms:** - **McDaniels Law** — described as very reasonable; seek a direct introduction from community members - **Howes Percival LLP** — praised as super helpful; ask them for a pre-filing report on whether your mark is trademarkable, and be clear upfront on all product categories you want to cover now and in future - **IP21** — members' go-to firm; multiple endorsements **Key considerations when filing:** - Get a trademarkability report *before* submitting your application to avoid wasting time and money - Be very clear and broad about the product categories you want to cover, thinking ahead to any future product development—this prevents having to refile later. Members emphasise that taking time upfront to define your category scope properly can save significant hassle down the line.
Who handles trademark registrations in the UK and what is their service quality like?
Members can handle trademark registrations themselves through the government's IP/TM team, which is based in Wales. This route is significantly easier and more responsive than expected, especially compared to other government agencies like HMRC. The process is straightforward to manage independently, and the team responds promptly when needed.
What are typical costs for trademark protection across multiple countries?
Trademark protection costs vary significantly depending on whether you use professional services or file directly yourself. **Professional service costs:** - A quote of £3,000 for multi-country protection (UK, EU, Australia, and USA) was reported by a member, though they questioned whether better rates were available. **DIY filing costs:** - Filing through the **Madrid Protocol** and the **IPO (UK Intellectual Property Office)** directly can cost approximately £1,500, representing a substantial saving over professional services. Members indicated that self-filing is feasible and recommended exploring this route if you have the bandwidth to manage the application process yourself.