Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Can liqueur products with 24% ABV be classified as wine for duty purposes to benefit from lower duty rates?
No—the duty classification depends on the base ingredient, not the final ABV. The key rule is that a product must be **51% fermented base and 49% spirit base** to qualify as "made wine" for duty purposes. If your liqueur is spirit-based, it will be classified as spirits regardless of whether it's 24% or 22% ABV, and you'll pay the higher duty rate (approximately £3.45 per 500ml bottle vs. £1.99 for wine-classified products). If your liqueur is wine-based and fortified to 22% ABV or lower, you may qualify for the wine duty bracket. Members confirm this distinction is strict and non-negotiable with HMRC.
What is the duty treatment and HMRC claim process for liqueurs made from duty-paid spirits at lower ABV?
The duty system for lower-ABV liqueurs made from duty-paid spirits is complex and involves understanding the differential duty rates by alcohol content. **Key points from member experience:** - Members are using duty-paid NGS (neutral grain spirit) at 96% ABV and paying duty at that rate, then diluting to produce liqueurs at 20% ABV, which attracts a lower duty rate per litre of pure alcohol (£3.14 lower than spirits over 22%) - One member confirmed they do this but had not previously claimed back the duty difference—suggesting a potential avenue that may not be widely utilised - The mechanism is that duty is charged relative to the alcohol content in the final liquid; however, using pre-duty-paid spirit as the base complicates the claim process - Circumstance matters: one member explained they are forced to use duty-paid spirit because their premises sits within another producer's site, which affects their sourcing options **Caveat:** The discussion did not contain detailed step-by-step HMRC claim procedures or confirmation of eligibility criteria. Members appear to understand the duty rate differential but actual claim experience was minimal in this exchange. Recommend seeking specialist HMRC guidance or duty consultant confirmation before implementing a claim strategy.
How have successful liqueur brands built awareness and consumer recall in the market?
St Germain offers a useful case study, though members note it benefited from exceptional advantages not typical of start-ups. The brand's growth strategy and key success factors: **St Germain's approach:** - **Relentless on-trade focus** — concentrated on bars and bartenders for the first 5 years before expanding to retail, building it as a must-stock item in US and UK venues - **Established networks** — the founding family had significant prior experience in import, wholesale and production in the US, plus existing brand-building expertise; this wasn't a start-from-scratch venture - **Bacardi partnership** — once established as a premium on-trade staple, acquisition by Bacardi accelerated growth; Bacardi then bundled it with complementary brands (Grey Goose) and created the "Hugo Spritz" cocktail platform, particularly in Germany, which became a major category driver - **Provenance storytelling** — French elderflower heritage was marketed heavily (though sourced initially from US syrup); Bacardi later invested in authentic sourcing trips to the Alps **Important caveat:** Members emphasise St Germain is *not* a best-case study for bootstrapped start-ups — the founding family's existing RTM infrastructure, brand experience, and capital meant the brand had advantages most founders lack. The Bacardi acquisition came after establishing strong foundations, not as a launchpad. **For design/rebranding support:** Members recommend **Kingdom & Sparrow** and **Analogue in Leeds**.