Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can members source packaging components (cardboard cases, cans, bottles, closures, cups) and what are typical pricing, MOQs and lead times?
Members source cardboard cases through Playford at approximately 30p per unbranded case plus 20p for inserts (4-colour print, double-walled board, suitable for courier); MOQ is typically 5,000 units. For cans, 250ml slim cans and 200ml cans are currently difficult to source; members recommend asking in the group as some hold stock. For small-quantity glass bottles, members work with Verallia/Allied in Leeds (contact Elle Prescott at fiona.prescott@verallia.co.uk, preferred over Nolan Kane who is slow). For 5cl PET/RPET bottles, members recommend Diamond, Future Pro, Hutch, and Fodabox; however, Future Pro reportedly has high prices. For custom corks and closures, members warn that Labrenta and Berlin have massive lead times (5–6 months); members are seeking alternatives but specific options are limited. For branded eco-friendly cups, members used Cupprint successfully. For urgent stock and specialist items (ROPP caps, bottle stoppers, closures), members recommend reaching out directly to the group as availability is unpredictable and lead times are often extended across suppliers. Logistics: standard 20ft containers hold 10 pallets of bottles. For EU/international shipments, use forwarders like Mannson who handle both Far East and European road freight and can advise on Brexit customs paperwork.
Where can members source key bulk ingredients and bases for drinks production, such as juices, spirits, glycerine, and non-spirits alcohol?
The community has shared several reliable sourcing contacts and suppliers for bulk drinks ingredients: **Juices** - **Eager** — recommended as an affordable wholesaler for bulk juices (orange, pineapple and others); members have used them for years at bars. **White Rum** - **Two Drifters** — contact mentioned as a potential white rum supplier for projects. - **UK-based European rum distillery** — members note access to 7 different white rum marques (molasses and cane fermentations, column/pot/double retort, made in England from scratch). **Non-Spirits Alcohol Bases** - **Bevisol** — specialises in non-NGS (non-grain spirits) alcohol bases for RTD products. They offer low-price neutral cider base. Contact: simon.fletcher@bevisol.com. Simon Fletcher is the key contact. - **Larger contract wineries, cideries and breweries** — members report having contacts available for those seeking provenance-led alcohol bases. **Elderflower Liqueur** - **Michael Mydflower** — recommended as a potential source for elderflower liqueur for cocktail applications; described as "very good liquid." **Caveats:** The discussion excerpts do not contain specific recommendations for dehydrated fruit in bulk, vegetable glycerine sourcing, aged rum for product development, or bulk tequila in IBC containers, despite these being asked questions. Members interested in those should ask directly in the group.
What are the best suppliers and sourcing strategies for sustainable packaging options including heat shrink capsules, pouches, paper bottles, and compostable cups?
The community has tested and recommended several specific sustainable packaging suppliers across different formats: **Heat shrink capsules (biodegradable):** - **Viscose Closures** (viscoseclosures.com/celons-viskrings/) — members are actively moving forward with rebranding using these. Contact via designer for bespoke versions and lead time quotes. **Eco pouches and bag-in-box formats:** - **Smurfit Kappa** — recommended for 5-litre eco pouches and bag-in-box solutions. Members can provide introductions and key learnings on sourcing. - **baginboxshop.co.uk** — another option for bag-in-box formats. **Paper bottles:** - **FrugalPac** — the go-to choice for members scaling sustainably. They offer off-the-shelf bottles that are easy to brand (example: the Avallen bottle), avoiding the complications of fully bespoke designs tied to major corporations. Multiple community members work with FrugalPac for filling/production support. **Compostable cups for festivals and events:** - **Just Peel** (Alison Hobson, 07711 176179, www.justpeel.co.uk / www.cupapeel.co.uk) — pricing around £0.14 per paper pint cup. Tested and trusted by members. - **Branded Cups and Cups Direct** — both used successfully by members ordering 20–50k units at a time with good bulk pricing (targeting around £0.10 per unit). - **Limepack** — biodegradable cups used at 10k+ volumes. Rated for high-strength spirits and hot drinks (though hot-drink performance is limited). **Key caveats:** Paper bottle suppliers (other than FrugalPac) are often tied to major corporate contracts, making bespoke production difficult and expensive. For compostable cups, pricing improves significantly with larger order volumes (20–50k units). Lead times on bespoke heat shrink capsules should be confirmed directly with suppliers.
What are the key trade-offs between Far East and European glass bottle suppliers, and who supplies coloured glass with reasonable MOQs?
**Far East vs. European suppliers** Members' experience suggests Far East suppliers offer cheaper set-up costs and are willing to produce small first runs, but come with significant drawbacks: - **Xilong** — Chinese supplier (contact: Rachel at +86 182 5869 2627, www.xilong-glass.com). Upsides: cheap set-up, will produce sample bottles for ~$2,000 and a design in a few weeks. Downsides: poor quality control with high bottle variance/tolerance, bottles arrive dirty, inconsistent fill levels, urgent orders require expensive air freight (eliminating cost savings), payment upfront (poor cash flow vs. European terms and free stock holding). - **European suppliers** — Generally better quality control and payment terms, but can have their own issues. Members reported one major European supplier shipping incorrect sizes (75cl mixed with 70cl in a single load) and being slow/unresponsive to queries. **Coloured glass suppliers with lower MOQs** - **Vetroelite** — Can colour glass for an extra per-bottle cost. MOQs described as "not crazy." Contact: Loris at l.traverso@vetroelite.com. - **Allied Glass** — MOQs around 40–50k units (considered low for coloured glass). Contact: Nolan at NKane@allied-glass.com. - **Unltd Beer** (contact: Jonny) — Bottles described as "not cheap" but MOQs are not too high. **Caveats:** European quality is more consistent, but members have experienced errors and poor communication even from major suppliers. Far East cost savings often evaporate when urgent orders require air freight.
Where can we source branded or custom-decorated glassware, and what are typical turnaround times?
Members recommend several established glassware suppliers for branded products, with varying turnaround times and capabilities. **Key suppliers:** - **Rastal** — mentioned multiple times as a reliable option with quicker turnaround than some competitors; can handle decoration/branding - **Festival Glass** — frequently recommended but noted to have longer lead times (8–12 weeks quoted); capable of branded glassware - **Utopia** — suggested as an alternative for decoration and branding; worth enquiring with - **Artis UK** (https://www.artis-uk.com/) — noted as good quality but slower turnaround - **Drinkstuff** (https://www.drinkstuff.com/products/glassware.asp) — has a great range and works well for smaller runs, but cannot print on designs (less cost-effective) - **Willis Publicity** — mentioned as worth trying, particularly for ice buckets **Turnaround summary:** Rastal appears to offer quicker turnaround than Festival Glass. Members should enquire directly with both to compare current lead times. **Caveats:** Festival Glass does not stock highball glasses in all ranges. Artis UK is reliable but slower. Drinkstuff cannot provide printing on their designs, making them suitable for undecorated stock only.
How can small producers source glass bottles when major suppliers have 6+ month backlogs?
During periods of glass supply chain disruption (factory closures, production backlogs, Brexit-related delays), members have faced lead times of 6–12+ months or indefinite delays from standard suppliers. Key insights from the community: **Supply challenges:** - Major suppliers like **Saverglass** have experienced massive backlogs, with screen-printed custom orders quoted for delivery 12+ months out (e.g., April the following year for orders placed in current year). - Delays have been attributed to factory closures during COVID, production stoppages, and order backlogs catching up on older commitments. - Standard lead times from primary suppliers became unavailable or indefinite (e.g., "might be available in Jan", "March", "no fixed date"). **Practical workarounds mentioned:** - Members recommend exploring alternative suppliers when primary sources fail. The specific tactics discussed include reaching out to other glass houses and networking within the community for introductions. - Plan ahead: lock in supply commitments early if considering custom orders, as even alternative routes require advance commitment. **Secondary challenges:** - Logistics for moving bottles/casks became a "frigging disaster zone" due to HGV driver shortages; transport costs more than doubled as drivers moved to higher-paying fuel transport work. **Caveat:** The excerpts do not name specific alternative glass suppliers that successfully fulfilled orders during this period, only confirm that members "had to go elsewhere." Members should network directly for current supplier contacts.
Where can we source 330ml NRB green glass bottles, and what are the typical costs and lead times for bespoke large-volume glass bottle orders?
For standard 330ml NRB green glass bottles, members suggest starting with established bottling companies and distributors: **Clearly Drinks** (Sunderland) and **HCC** (Hereford) are recommended as starting points. For canning/bottling trials, **Bottled & Canned** and **Envirocan** are mentioned. For large-volume bespoke bottles, members use these manufacturers: - **Verallia** — regularly used by multiple members - **Vetroelite** — recommended by several members; Italian supplier (vetreriaetrusca.it) - **Brunei Urban** — in use by community members - **Allied** — described as competitive choice with good reputation - **OI** — available but note 24-month lead time - **Kefla**, **Vetro**, and **Herastnik** — also mentioned as options Typical costs and MOQs for bespoke bottles: tooling/molds typically run £15–30k with minimum orders of 25–40k units. Members recommend speaking directly to **Nolan** (contact shared privately within group). **Murphy and Sons** noted for competitive pricing, though slower lead times. Caveats: Large-volume bespoke orders require significant upfront tooling investment and long lead times. OI specifically flagged for 24-month lead times. Smaller-scale needs may be better served by trial services like Bottled & Canned.
Where can wine bottle closures (shrink capsules and Vinolok) be sourced, particularly in the UK?
Members are actively seeking alternatives to traditional suppliers due to price pressures. **Bruni** has recently increased prices by 25%, prompting searches for other PVC/PET shrink capsule manufacturers. **Seven Tails** closures are sourced through **La Martiniques** in France, where they are assembled; this supplier offers competitive pricing on bulk orders due to aggregated buying across multiple brand labels. For **Vinolok** closures specifically, members have mentioned sourcing from **Berlin** (likely referring to a German supplier, though details are limited). **Prowein** (the trade show) has been referenced as a venue where members have made valuable supplier connections and visited facilities. For logistics support, **Hillebrand** (contact: diana.estelanecochea@hillebrandgori.com) has been used successfully for international shipments, including samples to Italy and shipments to Dubai, at approximately £100 for 2 × 70cl bottles from London. **UPS** is another option members have used for sample shipments. Members suggest coordinating shipment costs with peers attending Prowein to split shipping expenses.
Where can UK drinks brands source miniature 5cl bottles and 200ml slimline cans with reasonable lead times?
**Miniature 5cl bottles for urgent orders:** - **Pattersons Glass** (pattesonsglass.co.uk) — recommended as a potential source for miniature bottles; members have successfully contacted them for pre-Christmas deliveries of around 2000 units. - **East London Drinks** — members indicated they may be able to help with miniature bottle orders; direct contact recommended via PM. **200ml slimline cans:** - **Artisan** (via contract packer) — supplies 200ml cans with printing MOQs of 250k units, but converted stock does not need to be finished all at once. Fewer print runs are available for 200ml versus the more popular 250ml slim format, which can create supply constraints. - Members note that 200ml slimline cans present a narrower market with fewer suppliers than standard 250ml formats, making consistent supply more challenging. **Key caveat:** The 200ml slimline format has limited printing availability compared to 250ml alternatives, so lead times and MOQ commitments should be confirmed early with suppliers.
Should we source glass from China or use UK manufacturers, and what are the alternative suppliers beyond the major established brands?
The community recommends UK glass manufacturers over China for most producers, despite China's cheaper mould costs and quick turnaround. Freight costs from China have risen significantly and may eliminate unit-cost savings; UK suppliers offer better credit terms, stock holding, and consistency. **UK manufacturers:** - **Stoelzle** — recommended particularly for blue glass; can amortise mould costs and offer credit/stock holding - **Allied** — established UK manufacturer with similar benefits to Stoelzle - **Saverglass** — praised for reliability; can handle painting and screenprinting for orders over 5,000 bottles, useful for scaling - **Encirc** — alternative UK supplier - **Vetroelite** — alternative UK supplier **China sourcing trade-offs (if considering):** - Pros: cheaper mould costs, quick production turnaround, slightly lower unit costs - Cons: container freight from China now "completely mad" cost-wise, shipping time, upfront payment required, must take full delivery at once, quality inconsistency **Caveat:** Freight costs from China have risen to a point where they may fully offset any unit-cost advantage. Members advised wariness about this route at present. For "off the shelf" stock, contact the UK suppliers directly (e.g. Louis at Stoelzle).
Where can UK drinks makers source stubby steel cans, and which canning lines can handle them?
Stubby steel cans are sourced from China and remain a niche format in the UK market. **Whitebox** is the main known UK operator using them, and they offer white-label canning services—members recommend reaching out to them directly or requesting an introduction through the community. Members note that very few canning lines currently handle the stubby format, so availability is limited. Whitebox uses DHL for distribution outside London, which members found reliable within London but experienced occasional delivery issues during peak periods (e.g. Christmas), so factor in potential logistics delays for remote areas.
Where can I source pink grapefruit peel for production?
Members report that finding pink grapefruit peel suppliers can be challenging. When sourcing, clarify whether you need actual peel or oil, as this affects your supplier options. Recommended suppliers to contact: - **Beacon** — reportedly contacted but unavailable for pink grapefruit peel - **Star Spice** — reportedly contacted but unavailable for pink grapefruit peel - **KrauterMix** — suggested as an alternative option to try Members recommend reaching out directly rather than relying on LinkedIn outreach to avoid excessive contact attempts.
Where can we source natural wood head cork stoppers with short lead times?
Members have identified a few reliable suppliers for cork stoppers when lead times are tight. - **Labrenta** — recommended as a direct contact (Alessandro D'Ospina, alessandro.dospina@labrenta.com) - **Bostocap** — noted for quick orders of branded stoppers; members recommend calling rather than emailing (Chris Lancksweert, chris@bostocap.com) - **Vetro Elite** — members have secured corks within a week from this supplier - **Rawlings** — mentioned as an option - **Berlin Packaging** — available but noted as difficult to reach via email; calling is recommended Members also note that community members occasionally have stock available directly (e.g. unbranded stoppers in various specs), so it's worth asking in the group if you have specific requirements. **Caveat:** Lead times and availability vary by specification (diameter, material, branding). Colour and exact dimensions matter—one member's stock was rejected because the stopper was too dark for their application.
Where can you source black ROPP aluminium caps in specific sizes (e.g. 18mm x 12mm for 5cl bottles)?
Members recommend checking several UK suppliers who hold stock or can source specialist bottle caps: - **Croxsons** — suggested as a starting point for ROPP aluminium caps - **Pattesons** — mentioned as a potential supplier who may be able to help - **Rawlings** — noted as sometimes holding stock of these sizes One member successfully sourced 20k units urgently, suggesting these suppliers can handle larger orders and specific dimensions. For urgent requirements, contacting multiple suppliers simultaneously is recommended as stock availability varies.
Where can you source a 1000-litre tank for botanical maceration in contract production?
Members recommend exploring both new and rental options for larger-volume maceration tanks. **Tank options:** - **IBC (Intermediate Bulk Containers)** — the standard go-to. Members note these are widely available and can be modified if needed. - **Arlington tanks** — can be rented on a day rate, useful if you need temporary capacity for blending or maceration work. - **Distillery spares** — some members have access to spare tanks through distillery networks and may lend or rent them; worth asking around the community if you need one delivered and returned. **Important considerations:** - **Open-topped tanks with bottom drainage** are preferable for botanical maceration if you're doing high-volume input/output of plant material. If using an IBC, members have noted you can modify the top (e.g. with a grinder or saw), though this requires some work. - **Space and licensing** — ensure you have the appropriate premises and regulatory clearance for the maceration process. - Members suggested contacting local distilleries directly as a first port of call; they often have spare capacity or rental arrangements.
Where can we source bulk ingredients like simple syrup and cacao nibs for drinks manufacturing?
Members recommend making simple syrup in-house when possible due to cost savings, but outsourcing is viable for scale. For bulk cacao nibs, the community is still exploring reliable suppliers with consistent pricing. **Simple Syrup:** - **William Fox UK** — can supply any quantity from 100ml to 1000L IBC containers. Contact George Tudor-Williams at George@williamfoxuk.com. Members note that in-house production is cheaper but space and time constraints often drive the decision to outsource. **Cacao Nibs:** - No specific supplier was named in the discussion for bulk cacao nibs (30–50kg range). One member asked for recommendations but responses were not captured in the excerpts. Members flagged "mad variations in price" as a concern when sourcing at this volume, suggesting price comparison across suppliers is essential.
Where can drinks brands source bulk wine and wine ingredients for ready-to-drink production?
Members have identified several routes for bulk wine sourcing. The community recommends reaching out directly to members who have existing supplier relationships, as several have offered introductions via DM. **Good Food Wines in Kent** has been recommended as a direct supplier option. Members also note that **Mother's Ruin Distilling Co** acts as a bulk wine supplier and purchases on behalf of other brands—they can facilitate introductions. For international supply (e.g., Estonia), members have reported having contacts in Italy who can support logistics, though availability varies by destination. The best approach appears to be networking within the community for warm introductions rather than cold outreach, as members with existing relationships are willing to connect others.
How do you find and vet UK bottling and co-packing facilities for small batch production?
Finding a UK co-packer typically starts with personal introductions within the Kindred network. Members recommend reaching out directly to known facilities or asking for introductions via the group. Key suppliers and contacts mentioned: - **Columbo Group** — members have contacts here and can facilitate introductions - Direct outreach to individual members who manage co-packing relationships What you'll need ready: - **Volume requirements** — co-packers ask about expected batch sizes upfront - **Bottle format/size** — specify your exact packaging needs (e.g. wine spritz in specific bottle size) Approach: Members suggest emailing contacts directly or asking the group for an introduction. Several members indicated they have "a few options available depending on requirements," suggesting capacity varies by format and volume. Personal networks and word-of-mouth vetting appear to be the primary route—members will only recommend facilities they've worked with or trust.
Where can we source good quality whole dried botanical ingredients for spirits production?
Members consistently recommend two specialist suppliers for whole dried botanicals: - **Beacon Commodities** — highly praised as a reliable go-to source; multiple members recommend them enthusiastically. - **Organic Herb Trading** — recommended for quality and ethical practice; members note they "really look after their suppliers," suggesting reliable traceability and fair-trade credentials. Both suppliers appear to be trusted within the community for consistent quality and reliability in whole dried ingredient sourcing.
What are the best suppliers for branded wine glasses?
Members recommend several established suppliers for branded wine glasses: - **Festival Glass** (festivalglass.co.uk) — recommended by the community - **Utopia** — a standard choice for branded glassware - **Rastal** — another established supplier used by members - **Alibaba** — mentioned as an option, though typically for bulk overseas sourcing Members suggest checking these suppliers for options on custom wine glass branding. No specific pricing, lead times, or MOQs were discussed in the community thread.
How can I source bespoke glass stoppers from Asian manufacturers?
Members recommend reaching out directly to community contacts who have established relationships with Asian glass manufacturers. - **Direct contact via community network** — Members with existing partnerships offer to make introductions. Several members noted they have active supplier relationships for glass heads/stoppers and are happy to facilitate introductions via DM. - **One-to-one calls with experienced members** — Those who have recently completed sourcing (within the last few months) are available to share process details and supplier contacts on a call. The approach is brokered through private introductions rather than open sourcing platforms. No specific manufacturer names or pricing details were shared in the discussion, but members indicated the process is straightforward enough that they retain "a lot of the detail still to hand" after completing their own sourcing.
What are reliable suppliers for sustainable branded paper cups in large quantities?
Members recommend **GoforGreen** as a tested supplier for sustainable paper cups with no plastic liners and proper recyclability credentials. Their cups are described as "lovely" and have recently upgraded their sustainability credentials. **Key considerations:** - **GoforGreen** — supplies recyclable paper cups without plastic liners; allow for 6-week lead times and plan accordingly to avoid last-minute delays - Multiple members use GoforGreen and report satisfaction with both product quality and sustainability standards **Caveats:** Lead times are firm (6 weeks reported), so order well in advance to avoid supply pressure. Confirm your specific volume requirements (e.g. 500k units) and branding specifications directly with the supplier.
Where can members source bespoke flexible hexagon packaging for multi-bottle configurations?
Members have successfully sourced flexihex packaging through a small number of established suppliers. **Forms Plus** is the primary recommendation — they offer bespoke flexihex packaging solutions and can produce custom configurations for 1, 2, and 3-bottle setups. They operate both in the US and UK (Forms Plus UK). **Herti UK** is also mentioned as a reliable supplier that members have used. Both suppliers appear capable of handling custom design work for multi-bottle flexible hexagon packaging. No specific lead times, pricing, or minimum order quantities were discussed in the available excerpts.
Where can I find reliable glass bottle suppliers for custom lightweight bottle shapes?
Members facing urgent glass sourcing challenges recommend reaching out to established suppliers and intermediaries who can help navigate current stock constraints. Key contacts and options: - **Allied Glass (Leeds)** — contact John, their UK sales director; also has an "Emerging brands" division that may offer solutions - **Spiritbridge** — has a strong network for sourcing custom bottles; members recommend emailing support@spiritbridge.io or dropping a direct note to Jonathan for assistance - **Oliver** — mentioned as having a great network for glass sourcing (contact details not provided in discussion) - **Drinks Aisle** — another potential supplier to contact (specific contact details not shared) - **Secondary market/excess stock** — members occasionally have surplus bottles available (e.g. discontinued Herbalist/Duppy bottles); worth asking in the community if you need immediate inventory **Important context:** Members noted significant global stock shortages in early 2024, with some suppliers facing 6+ month out-of-stock periods. It's advisable to have conversations with intermediaries like Spiritbridge or established suppliers with diverse networks (Allied Glass, Oliver) who may have contingency options or access to alternative lightweight shapes that match your requirements.
How can you find a custom bottle mould designer who understands structural engineering as well as aesthetic differentiation?
Members have successfully sourced custom bottle mould designers through peer recommendations within the community. The key is finding someone with practical experience in bottle structure and engineering, rather than relying solely on creative credentials. **How to find designers:** - Ask within the Kindred community directly; several members have vetted designers they're happy with and will make introductions via private message. - Request an introduction from someone who's already working with a mould designer—this peer-validated route is how most members have connected. **What to look for:** - Someone with proven experience in bottle structure and manufacturing constraints (not just design aesthetics). - A designer who understands the technical requirements of mould design, not just visual appeal. **Specific bottle referenced:** - Members have discussed sourcing **Apotheker white flint 500ml bottles with 18mm neck width**, suggesting this is a common specification worth enquiring about if it fits your product.
What are the quality and logistics risks of sourcing glass bottles from China?
Multiple members have sourced bottles from China and consistently report significant hidden costs that outweigh initial savings. While quality can be acceptable, logistics and preparation issues create substantial friction. **Key risks identified:** - **Cleanliness issues** — Bottles arrive dirty and oily, requiring machine washing before bottling; described as very common - **Quality control inconsistency** — Fill-level and neck-diameter tolerances are unreliable and occasionally problematic - **Lead times** — Shipments are slow to reach the UK, often creating bottlenecks - **Freight cost creep** — Any cost savings from lower unit prices are typically wiped out by air freight charges needed to meet production deadlines - **Damaged/delayed shipments** — Occasional delays and damage reported across multiple runs **Member consensus:** Several members have moved away from Chinese sourcing entirely, shifting back to UK production. The consensus is that apparent cost savings rarely materialise once preparation time, rework, and expedited shipping are factored in. Members describe lessons learned "the hard way" and now view onshoring as the more predictable route.
Where can we source synthetic wood-effect cork closures when facing supply shortages?
Members are experiencing cork supply constraints and have identified a key supplier to contact. **Rankin James** is recommended as a top-3 cork supplier and has been suggested as a starting point for sourcing synthetic wood-effect corks, including 19.5mm options. Members suggest reaching out to Rankin James first when facing availability issues, though no other specific alternative suppliers were named in the discussion. The community is actively problem-solving on this—if you have surplus stock (e.g. brown wood cork stoppers in specific dimensions), members are willing to buy from each other as a workaround during shortages.
What are the main bulk rum suppliers that can provide spirits in IBCs and tanker quantities?
Members recommended a small number of tested suppliers for bulk rum: - **Sheer's** (Holland) — described as "the best" and already in use by multiple members as their primary supplier - **Diamonds Distillers Ltd (DDL)** (Guyana) — bulk distill spirits for numerous clients; members suggest buying direct from them. Contact details available on request from community members. - **Distribucions Túnel** (https://distribucionstunel.com/distribucions-tunel-home/) — mentioned as a potential option worth investigating - **Marqt** (Amsterdam) — one member sought an introduction here, though specifics on their bulk offerings weren't detailed in discussion Members noted that Sheer's is their current go-to, with at least one member actively seeking backup options. For introductions to contacts at DDL or other suppliers, members are willing to make direct introductions via DM.
Where can I source 30 litres of cask strength Scottish whisky for independent bottling?
One member indicated they have a direct contact available for sourcing cask strength Scottish whisky. The member sourcing would prefer Highland or Speyside single malt. Members also noted experience with independent bottling projects (e.g. Raye), which generated press coverage and industry contacts, though volumes remained relatively small. For press and buyer contacts, you should confirm directly with the member's contact what connections they can facilitate.
How can a founder find alternative tonic manufacturers to replace a discontinued supplier?
When a tonic supplier discontinues a product line, the most practical approach is to crowdsource leads within the Kindred network first. **Direct outreach to community members:** Ask the group for introductions to tonic producers within Kindred. Members have responded positively to public requests and indicated willingness to make introductions via DM. **Key contact leads mentioned:** - **Andy Mallows** — identified as a tonic maker in the group; worth reaching out directly - **New World Trading Company** — historically a tonic supplier, though leadership has changed (Kelly and Gary have left); members recommended finding out who currently leads the operation - **Lakes Distillery** — flagged as a potential contact; members offered to make introductions if you ask directly **Volume discussion:** Be prepared to discuss your annual volumes upfront when approaching new manufacturers, as this will inform their interest and pricing. **Next steps:** When you have preliminary proposals or partnership outlines sketched, members have shown willingness to help facilitate conversations. Start with direct messages to known contacts in the community rather than cold outreach.
Where should UK drinks founders relocate their supply chains away from China, and what are viable low-cost alternatives?
Members who have recently diversified supply chains report success with Turkey as a credible middle-ground option. Turkey offers significantly lower costs than domestic UK production, faster lead times, and avoids the extended shipping delays via the Red Sea that come with Chinese sourcing. Several members are currently working with Turkish packaging suppliers and report positive early results, though verification of supplier reliability is ongoing. Members advise requesting direct contact details from peers who have tested suppliers before committing to large orders, as trust-building and performance validation are critical in the early stages of new supply relationships.
Where can I source small quantities of specialty packaging like bitters bottles and aluminium containers without minimum orders of thousands of units?
Members recommend approaching specialist packaging suppliers and existing bitters producers who can work with smaller order quantities. Here are the specific options members have used: - **The Bitter Queens** — met at Berlin Bar Show; they have a UK importer, Damian Egan, who runs his own distribution company and stocks various bitters in his range. Good option for bitters sourcing. - **Ampulla** — mentioned as stocking smaller format bottles and containers (250ml aluminium bottles cited as an example). - **Dijkstra** — Dutch packaging supplier (https://www.dijkstra.net/verpakkingen/) suggested for smaller quantity orders. - **The Mixology Collection** — mentioned as a potential source. - **Bob's Bitters** (https://www.bobsbitters.com/) — listed as another bitters option. Members successfully sourced pallet quantities (rather than 10,000+ unit minimums) from these suppliers. The key appears to be approaching specialist distributors and importers rather than direct manufacturers, as they're more willing to work with smaller volumes.
What are the challenges of sourcing aged rum produced and barrel-aged for extended periods in the Caribbean or Central America, and what production methods do suppliers use to manage them?
Angel share loss is a major challenge when rum is aged in the Caribbean rather than finished elsewhere. Members report that evaporation rates are "horrific" in tropical climates for extended aging periods (8+ years), making Caribbean-aged stock economically difficult. To manage this, most producers of aged rum 8+ years old use the **Solera method** rather than continuous barrel aging in high-evaporation regions. This blending approach allows them to maintain consistency while minimizing angel share impact. For sourcing: - **Solento** is cited as a common aged rum option and is reportedly stocked by Selfridges. Members indicated they know the founders and can facilitate introductions if needed.
What alternative cork and closure suppliers should brands use when primary suppliers have extremely long lead times?
When major suppliers like Bruni and Erben (Berlin Packaging) quote unworkable lead times (currently 22–23 weeks for items previously delivered in 3 weeks), members recommend shifting to smaller, more responsive European suppliers. **Alternative suppliers members have used:** - **GNC Packaging** — recommended as a contact (Oliver) - **Bouchages-Delage** (France) — fairly responsive with smaller quantities and generic finishes - **Bostocap** (Belgium) — fairly responsive with smaller quantities and generic finishes - **RS Cork** (Portugal) — described as fairly good to deal with for smaller orders; members willing to provide introductions - **Portuguese cork suppliers** — members have reliable contacts and offer shorter lead times **Key insight:** Smaller European suppliers are currently more responsive than major consolidators like Bruni, which members note are focused on buying up competition and raising prices rather than fulfilling existing customer orders. Members report that Bruni's communication and delivery on custom work (e.g. etched stoppers, heat seals) has become unreliable even for long-standing clients. **Tactic:** For non-bespoke items (generic finishes, standard sizes like 18mm shank or 40 x 12mm), the smaller suppliers can turn around orders much faster. Members actively share introductions to their trusted Portuguese and European contacts.
Where can I source small format dropper-lid bottles (25–35ml) in flat shapes similar to bitters packaging?
Members recommend **Ampulla** (www.ampulla.co.uk) as a supplier for small dropper-lid bottles in the 25–35ml range, including flat bottle formats similar to bitters-style packaging. This appears to be the primary go-to supplier identified by the community for this specific product type.
Where can I source small-quantity sample bottles (around 200ml) without buying a full pallet?
Members recommend **Sen5se** (https://www.sen5es.co.uk/spirit-bottles) for 200ml sample bottles in small quantities at reasonable prices. The company was founded by Ross Carter, formerly of The Drinks Trust, and members have noted the founder's trustworthiness based on his previous industry work. This supplier is noted as a solution to the common problem of minimum order quantities being too large or prices being prohibitively high when sourcing small sample volumes.
What are the best suppliers for sourcing lemon juice in bulk for event activations and cocktail production?
For bulk lemon juice sourcing, members recommend starting with contact at **Funkin**, a major supplier in this space—reach out through your network for introductions. When placing orders, consider your volume needs carefully: **25kg BIBs (bag-in-box)** are praised as a practical middle ground for mid-scale activations, avoiding the commitment of full pallets of 4×200kg drums. Specific suppliers members have used recently: - **Keyme** (keyme.eu) — tested for bulk ingredient supply - **In-house supplier** (contact via community) — can provide lemon juice in 1kg cartons or 10 litre bags; reach out for terms Caveats: Members note that bulk lemon juice sourcing requires advance planning and relationship-building; direct outreach through existing contacts at major suppliers often yields better terms and flexibility than cold approaches.
Where can I source rPET/PET bottles for 5cl miniature spirits?
Members recommend contacting established closure and packaging suppliers directly for miniature bottle stock. **Specific suppliers and contacts:** - **Guala/UCP** — contact Kate Stalker at kate.stalker@gualaclosuresucp.co.uk. Can supply both round and flask-shaped 5cl bottles. - **G&C** — Oliver is listed as a contact who may be able to help with miniature bottle sourcing. - **Spirit Bridge** — Jonathan (jonathan@spirit-bridge.co.uk) is willing to loop members into their supplier network. **Note:** Members suggest clarifying your bottle shape preference (round vs flask) before reaching out, as this affects availability and lead times.
Where can we source small-volume cold brew coffee and coffee liqueur miniatures for gift sets?
For coffee liqueur miniatures and cold brew coffee products in small volumes for gift sets, members recommend: - **Conker** — produces a delicious coffee liqueur that members have recommended for gift set inclusion - **Fitch** — a contact point for sourcing these products; members can request an introduction to Emily at Fitch - Direct outreach to known producers — members suggest identifying specific producers (e.g. Andy) and reaching out directly Members note that the specific volumes required (150ml cold brew cans/bottles and 50ml coffee liqueur miniatures) are relatively small, so sourcing may require approaching producers directly or through existing industry connections rather than through generic suppliers.
Where can you source good-quality generic cardboard bottle boxes in wholesale quantities?
Members recommend **Nuttall Packaging** (based in Manchester) as a reliable source for simple, generic cardboard bottle boxes in wholesale quantities at good value. They handle the type of off-the-shelf, bulk orders (e.g., 12-bottle cases) that small producers typically need.