Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can members source packaging components (cardboard cases, cans, bottles, closures, cups) and what are typical pricing, MOQs and lead times?
Members source cardboard cases through Playford at approximately 30p per unbranded case plus 20p for inserts (4-colour print, double-walled board, suitable for courier); MOQ is typically 5,000 units. For cans, 250ml slim cans and 200ml cans are currently difficult to source; members recommend asking in the group as some hold stock. For small-quantity glass bottles, members work with Verallia/Allied in Leeds (contact Elle Prescott at fiona.prescott@verallia.co.uk, preferred over Nolan Kane who is slow). For 5cl PET/RPET bottles, members recommend Diamond, Future Pro, Hutch, and Fodabox; however, Future Pro reportedly has high prices. For custom corks and closures, members warn that Labrenta and Berlin have massive lead times (5–6 months); members are seeking alternatives but specific options are limited. For branded eco-friendly cups, members used Cupprint successfully. For urgent stock and specialist items (ROPP caps, bottle stoppers, closures), members recommend reaching out directly to the group as availability is unpredictable and lead times are often extended across suppliers. Logistics: standard 20ft containers hold 10 pallets of bottles. For EU/international shipments, use forwarders like Mannson who handle both Far East and European road freight and can advise on Brexit customs paperwork.
Where can we source standard off-the-shelf 6-bottle wine cardboard cases with reasonable lead times?
Several suppliers offer off-the-shelf wine cases, though lead times vary significantly. Members have identified the following options: - **Smurfitt Kappa** (Holland) — offers a "premium" service for standard unbranded cases with a 5-week lead time. Contact: sonja.romeijn-velderman@smurfitkappa.nl - **Kite** — recommended as a good option for stock availability on standard cases - **Rajapack** — mentioned as an alternative, though recent stock availability was reported as limited - **Davpack** — suggested as another potential supplier - **Boxes Direct** — members have used this as a stopgap supplier for online orders (www.boxesdirect.co.uk) - **WBC** (Wine Bottle Cases) — offers pallets of 6-bottle budget transit cases available in bulk, including fold-up options (https://www.wbc.co.uk/offers/bulk-buy/6-bottle-budget-transit-pallet-bulk-buy/) **Caveat:** Even for standard, unbranded cases, lead times remain long (5 weeks minimum reported). Stock availability fluctuates, so checking directly with suppliers for current availability is essential before committing to orders.
Where can drinks brands source raw ingredients like pink grapefruit, cachaça, rye whisky under bond, and bulk agave syrup?
The community has shared several specific supplier routes for key ingredients: **Pink grapefruit**: Members flagged interest in sourcing but no specific supplier was named in the discussion; this may require direct outreach to produce wholesalers or citrus distributors. **Cachaça producers supplying direct**: A member posted a direct request seeking cachaça producers who can supply direct, but no specific supplier was named in these excerpts. **Rye profile whisky under bond (~£15 per 70cl)**: - **Organic English rye whisky**: One member has 1800L of organic English rye under bond and was open to selling in quantities around 10 cases; contact james@tomsavano.com for details. - **Bottle & Rye**: Mentioned as a potential source. **Bulk agave syrup at low MOQs**: - **Woods**: Supplies 5-litre jerries; price not specified but members calculated that purchasing 5 jerries was cost-effective for their needs. - Direct member inventory: One member has 275kg of agave syrup and indicated spare stock available via DM. **Note**: The pink grapefruit and cachaça sourcing questions generated interest but no concrete suppliers were named in the community discussion, so members may need to follow up directly or tap the WhatsApp group for introductions.
Are there reliability issues with flexihex flap boxes, and does the supplier matter?
Most members report flexihex flap boxes work reliably, but occasional issues do occur—typically depending on where you source them. Since the design was sold, not all boxes are equal in quality. **Sourcing recommendations:** - **Buy direct from the manufacturer** — members who source directly report the most reliable performance and no issues - **Kite** — reported as working fine with no problems - **Rajapack** — some members have had success, but others report their boxes occasionally need reinforcement; if sourcing here, consider adding tape as backup **Risk mitigation:** Members recommend using tape on flexihex boxes as a safety measure, even if you haven't experienced failures. Several note they add tape "just to be safe" regardless of source, and some suspect occasional "dud batches" may occur. The added tape cost is minimal compared to the risk of flaps opening in transit or on shelf.
Which suppliers do community members recommend for branded merchandise like ice buckets, aprons, blankets, cool boxes, parasols and paper cups?
Members have shared several go-to suppliers for branded merchandise, each with different strengths: **Ice buckets:** - **Waiters Friend** (waitersfriend.co.uk/product-category/ice-buckets/) — members report good experience - **Outdoor POS** (outdoor-pos.com/products/barware, contact: jelle@outdoor-pos.com) — praised for quick turnaround and low minimum order quantities - **Pedrino** — offered as a short lead time option by a member **Aprons:** - Low MOQ branded aprons can be sourced, though one member suggested asking for Simon Davies (of Chase) as a potential contact for classy options **Blankets and cool boxes:** - **Outdoor POS** also handles these items with low MOQ and quick turnaround **Parasols and paper cups:** - Sourcing parasols and paper cups can be done through Chinese suppliers at the cheapest price point, though lead times are typically 3.5 months - Members noted Chinese sourcing is "much much much cheaper" but require patience on delivery **Note:** Willis was previously recommended by the community for ice buckets but members report recent difficulties getting quotes. Outdoor POS appears to be the current preferred alternative for multiple product categories with shorter lead times and flexible MOQs.
Where can members source key bulk ingredients and bases for drinks production, such as juices, spirits, glycerine, and non-spirits alcohol?
The community has shared several reliable sourcing contacts and suppliers for bulk drinks ingredients: **Juices** - **Eager** — recommended as an affordable wholesaler for bulk juices (orange, pineapple and others); members have used them for years at bars. **White Rum** - **Two Drifters** — contact mentioned as a potential white rum supplier for projects. - **UK-based European rum distillery** — members note access to 7 different white rum marques (molasses and cane fermentations, column/pot/double retort, made in England from scratch). **Non-Spirits Alcohol Bases** - **Bevisol** — specialises in non-NGS (non-grain spirits) alcohol bases for RTD products. They offer low-price neutral cider base. Contact: simon.fletcher@bevisol.com. Simon Fletcher is the key contact. - **Larger contract wineries, cideries and breweries** — members report having contacts available for those seeking provenance-led alcohol bases. **Elderflower Liqueur** - **Michael Mydflower** — recommended as a potential source for elderflower liqueur for cocktail applications; described as "very good liquid." **Caveats:** The discussion excerpts do not contain specific recommendations for dehydrated fruit in bulk, vegetable glycerine sourcing, aged rum for product development, or bulk tequila in IBC containers, despite these being asked questions. Members interested in those should ask directly in the group.
What bottle cap suppliers offer branded closures for 500ml bottles with competitive MOQs and pricing?
For branded 500ml bottle caps, members recommend exploring a handful of established suppliers, though MOQs remain a challenge across the industry. **Recommended suppliers:** - **Bruno Erben** — used by members for closures; described as efficient - **Berlin Packaging** — noted as potentially more affordable than some competitors depending on closure type, though MOQs are higher. (Note: members clarified that Bruni and Berlin Packaging are the same company) - **Pelliconi** — familiar to members from previous bottle purchases, but MOQs are acknowledged to be large - **Patteson Glass** — specifically praised for low MOQ options on both bottles and caps **Pricing context:** One member shared their recent quote (60K @ £31.50/k, 120K @ £22.35/k, 240K @ £14.75/k) as a benchmark for comparison. **Key caveat:** Large MOQs are structural across the industry — even suppliers positioned as "low MOQ" alternatives tend to have higher minimums than ideal for smaller producers. Members recommend getting direct quotes from multiple suppliers to compare against your specific requirements.
What are the best suppliers and sourcing strategies for sustainable packaging options including heat shrink capsules, pouches, paper bottles, and compostable cups?
The community has tested and recommended several specific sustainable packaging suppliers across different formats: **Heat shrink capsules (biodegradable):** - **Viscose Closures** (viscoseclosures.com/celons-viskrings/) — members are actively moving forward with rebranding using these. Contact via designer for bespoke versions and lead time quotes. **Eco pouches and bag-in-box formats:** - **Smurfit Kappa** — recommended for 5-litre eco pouches and bag-in-box solutions. Members can provide introductions and key learnings on sourcing. - **baginboxshop.co.uk** — another option for bag-in-box formats. **Paper bottles:** - **FrugalPac** — the go-to choice for members scaling sustainably. They offer off-the-shelf bottles that are easy to brand (example: the Avallen bottle), avoiding the complications of fully bespoke designs tied to major corporations. Multiple community members work with FrugalPac for filling/production support. **Compostable cups for festivals and events:** - **Just Peel** (Alison Hobson, 07711 176179, www.justpeel.co.uk / www.cupapeel.co.uk) — pricing around £0.14 per paper pint cup. Tested and trusted by members. - **Branded Cups and Cups Direct** — both used successfully by members ordering 20–50k units at a time with good bulk pricing (targeting around £0.10 per unit). - **Limepack** — biodegradable cups used at 10k+ volumes. Rated for high-strength spirits and hot drinks (though hot-drink performance is limited). **Key caveats:** Paper bottle suppliers (other than FrugalPac) are often tied to major corporate contracts, making bespoke production difficult and expensive. For compostable cups, pricing improves significantly with larger order volumes (20–50k units). Lead times on bespoke heat shrink capsules should be confirmed directly with suppliers.
What are the key trade-offs between Far East and European glass bottle suppliers, and who supplies coloured glass with reasonable MOQs?
**Far East vs. European suppliers** Members' experience suggests Far East suppliers offer cheaper set-up costs and are willing to produce small first runs, but come with significant drawbacks: - **Xilong** — Chinese supplier (contact: Rachel at +86 182 5869 2627, www.xilong-glass.com). Upsides: cheap set-up, will produce sample bottles for ~$2,000 and a design in a few weeks. Downsides: poor quality control with high bottle variance/tolerance, bottles arrive dirty, inconsistent fill levels, urgent orders require expensive air freight (eliminating cost savings), payment upfront (poor cash flow vs. European terms and free stock holding). - **European suppliers** — Generally better quality control and payment terms, but can have their own issues. Members reported one major European supplier shipping incorrect sizes (75cl mixed with 70cl in a single load) and being slow/unresponsive to queries. **Coloured glass suppliers with lower MOQs** - **Vetroelite** — Can colour glass for an extra per-bottle cost. MOQs described as "not crazy." Contact: Loris at l.traverso@vetroelite.com. - **Allied Glass** — MOQs around 40–50k units (considered low for coloured glass). Contact: Nolan at NKane@allied-glass.com. - **Unltd Beer** (contact: Jonny) — Bottles described as "not cheap" but MOQs are not too high. **Caveats:** European quality is more consistent, but members have experienced errors and poor communication even from major suppliers. Far East cost savings often evaporate when urgent orders require air freight.
What logistics and fulfillment providers do drinks brands use, and how do they compare?
Members use a range of 3PL and storage providers, with significant variation in service quality and suitability depending on business needs. **Established providers mentioned:** - **LCB** — solid performer with 5+ years of loyalty from members; reliable but expensive; occasional peaks lead to service gaps; portal is clunky and not user-friendly; very few damages reported (5 broken bottles over 5 years); works best for businesses ahead on stock with simple customer bases, struggles with agility and flexibility - **LAW** — currently used by some but members report serious issues: poor comms, delivery mistakes, and stock damage; disputes ongoing - **MCF** — praised as "great"; unclear whether they handle alcohol - **EHD** — described as "really good" - **Diamond Logistics** — strong reputation; noted strengths include reliability; weakness: doesn't integrate with NOTHS system; some members have moved away due to DPD pricing concerns - **We Are Fulfilment** — members report being "very happy" with them - **ShipBob** — shortlisted in recent 3PL tender processes - **Vibe 65** — shortlisted in recent 3PL tender processes - **Huboo** — mentioned as a consideration but no direct experience shared **Key caveats:** LCB can be overwhelmed during peak periods; LAW has communication and handling issues; Diamond's lack of NOTHS integration may be a blocker for some; system integrations and pricing should be verified for your specific needs.
Which label suppliers do members recommend for glass bottles, and what are their contact details?
Members recommend several reliable label suppliers for glass bottles with competitive pricing: - **MCC** — frequently recommended by multiple members - **Label Apeel** — noted as having done "quite a bit of work with other Kindreds" - **Berkshire Labels** — established supplier in the network - **Vale Labels** — used by at least one member - **Reflex** (contact: saral@reflexlabelplus.co.uk) — praised for competitive pricing ("a little cheaper than Berkshire") and responsiveness; Sara at Reflex is noted as "awesome" and has helped members with tight deadlines Members suggest tendering across these suppliers to compare pricing and capability for front, back, and neck labels on glass bottles.
Where can we source branded or custom-decorated glassware, and what are typical turnaround times?
Members recommend several established glassware suppliers for branded products, with varying turnaround times and capabilities. **Key suppliers:** - **Rastal** — mentioned multiple times as a reliable option with quicker turnaround than some competitors; can handle decoration/branding - **Festival Glass** — frequently recommended but noted to have longer lead times (8–12 weeks quoted); capable of branded glassware - **Utopia** — suggested as an alternative for decoration and branding; worth enquiring with - **Artis UK** (https://www.artis-uk.com/) — noted as good quality but slower turnaround - **Drinkstuff** (https://www.drinkstuff.com/products/glassware.asp) — has a great range and works well for smaller runs, but cannot print on designs (less cost-effective) - **Willis Publicity** — mentioned as worth trying, particularly for ice buckets **Turnaround summary:** Rastal appears to offer quicker turnaround than Festival Glass. Members should enquire directly with both to compare current lead times. **Caveats:** Festival Glass does not stock highball glasses in all ranges. Artis UK is reliable but slower. Drinkstuff cannot provide printing on their designs, making them suitable for undecorated stock only.
Where can I find custom glass bottle manufacturers in China who offer decoration and work with small minimum order quantities?
Members recommend direct contact with established Chinese glass bottle suppliers. The specific contact shared was: - **Xilong Glass** — Contact Rachel Li at +86 180 6980 2136, or visit https://www.xilongglass.com. Members noted they can handle custom decoration and deliver bottles in assembled cardboard cases, which protects them during transport and saves assembly time on the bottling line. One member flagged that quality issues can occur, and freight/exchange rate risk are factors to consider when sourcing from China. Members also indicated they have personal contacts within their networks who specialise in this area and are willing to make introductions — reach out directly to discuss your requirements and MOQ needs.
Where can I find a cream liqueur producer or co-packer?
Several cream liqueur producers and co-packers are active in the UK and Ireland drinks scene. Members recommend: - **Coole Swan** — established Irish cream liqueur brand, well-regarded within the community - **Hensol** — produces vegan cream liqueur using coconut milk base - **Licor43** — supplies Horchata, a vegan cream liqueur made from tiger nut (Spain's no. 1 liqueur brand) - **Creamy Creation** — recommended as a potential supplier - **Niche Drinks** (Northern Ireland) — co-packer with proven track record; members have worked with them successfully - **West Cork distillery** — produces cream liqueurs; available for direct conversation about specific needs - **Custom producer** — One member's company produces cream liqueurs at scale, recently won a silver award for Tequila Strawberry Cream, and manufactures private-label volumes for major retailers. They are open to helping and noted they're shortly expanding dedicated cream production lines. **Important caveat:** Members emphasised that when selecting a producer, **verify they can actually produce the liquid to your specification** — don't assume capability without confirmation. Plant-based/vegan formulations are available if needed.
Which bonded warehouses do members recommend for startups, and how do their pricing and service compare?
Members consistently recommend a small number of bonded warehouse providers, with clear preferences based on service quality and pricing. **Key providers members recommend:** - **LAW** — Multiple members strongly prefer LAW over competitors. Stan (a named contact) is highlighted as excellent and responsive. Members report better service and pricing compared to LCB. One member has been with LAW for 7 years. Note: LAW may currently be capacity-constrained and unable to take on new clients. - **LCB** — Available option but members report higher case pricing compared to alternatives like LAW, making it a less competitive choice if cost is a primary concern. - **Europa** — Described as pretty reliable and responsive, though less detail provided on pricing or suitability for startups. **Pricing caveat:** Members note that "pricing is definitely apples and oranges" between providers, so direct quotes are essential. One member warned they're paying "case price which is crazy" with their current provider, suggesting you should negotiate terms carefully. **Service note:** The quality of account management appears variable. Stan at LAW is specifically praised for his knowledge and engagement, suggesting relationship quality matters as much as headline pricing. For scaling startups, members suggest getting direct quotes from LAW, Europa, and potentially LCB, but prioritise LAW as first choice based on this community's experience.
Which UK contract fillers and suppliers offer 50ml bottle filling services?
Several members in the collective offer 50ml contract filling as a service. The best approach is to reach out directly via DM to discuss your specific requirements. For glass bottles, members recommend: - **Saverglass** — George is the UK rep; contact: gwp@saverglass.com, 07576670584 - **Croxsons** — holds most of Saverglass's range and can supply bottles - **A E Chapman** — close relationship with Saverglass, can also supply Members note that direct outreach to community members who offer the service is often the quickest route to discussion and quoting.
What invoice financing or discounting services do members recommend for drinks businesses?
Several invoice financing providers are actively used and recommended by members in the drinks industry. - **Close Brothers** — Known for strong industry expertise in drinks. Rigorous due diligence process, but highly regarded. Offers bad debt cover. Members have made introductions available. - **HYDR** — Charges 5% and pays same day the invoice is raised. Integrates with Xero and banking systems. Proactive in chasing buyer approval and follow-up. Members report no issues and recommend. - **Novuna** — Used by members; recommended for invoice financing. - **Growth Lending** — Mentioned as an option for invoice financing in the drinks space. - **Time Finance** — Recommended by members who can provide introductions. Members specifically noted they wanted providers that **understand the drinks industry** rather than generic lenders. Close Brothers' strong bad debt cover was highlighted as valuable. HYDR's same-day payment and proactive buyer-chasing were cited as practical advantages.
What are the minimum order quantities and pricing for aluminium bottles from European suppliers?
European aluminium bottle suppliers have very high MOQs. Members report contact with suppliers in Holland via business connections. **MOQ is 100,000 units unprinted and 300,000 units for printed bottles** — substantially higher than many spirits founders can accommodate for early-stage products. For reference, **Trivium Packaging** (triviumpackaging.com) was mentioned as a supplier option, though specific pricing and MOQ details were not shared in discussion. Members noted there are "grey areas" around aluminium bottle supply, though the nature of these concerns was not elaborated. Charlie Turner at Penrhos Gin (charlie@penrhosspirits.co.uk) was identified as a contact using aluminium bottles, though he was reportedly reluctant to share supplier details.
Where can I source custom paper cups and branded merchandise for brand activations and events?
Members recommend a handful of proven suppliers for custom cups and merchandise. For **cups direct** — competitive pricing if you meet minimum order quantities. For sustainability-focused options, **Go For Green** (goforgreenuk.com) is recommended, with members noting Wayne at GFG as a good contact. For branded merchandise beyond cups, **Bags of Ethics** was used successfully for tote bags, and **Awesome Merch** is also recommended for branded items. One member mentioned **TPI** as an option for cups. Members suggest reaching out directly to these suppliers to discuss your MOQs and design requirements, and note that personal introductions (like Wayne at GFG) can help smooth the process.
Where can UK drinks producers source packaging stock like bottles, corks, and cans from other producers or suppliers?
Members have identified several specific sources for secondary packaging stock, both from industry liquidations and specialist suppliers: **Stock clearance opportunities:** - **Brittains closure stock** — One member had 100,000 corks available (40mm x 12mm, dark wood, natural cork shank 18.5mm, made for herbalist bottles) sourced from Brittains' closure - **Brew and Bottle liquidation** — 100k x 150ml cans available from this company going into liquidation - **Peer-to-peer sourcing** — Members regularly post urgent needs (e.g., 35cl personalised bottles for Christmas orders, 20ml/25ml bottles, white flint Kelfa Apotheker or Herbalist 70cl bottles) in the group; sometimes other members have surplus stock to offload **Specialist packaging suppliers:** - **Propak** — Recommended for branded items like jiggers - **Xilong** (Far East option; +86 182 5869 2627, http://www.xilong-glass.com) — Used occasionally for minis and first runs of new SKUs due to cheap set-up costs. However, members warned that quality control is poor (bottle variance/tolerance greater than European suppliers), bottles often arrive dirty, fill levels vary, payment is upfront (poor cash flow vs. UK terms), and shipping delays eliminate cost savings unless budget allows air freight. Rachel is the contact. Members noted they've since moved all formats back to UK production. **Service providers offering contract solutions:** - **Gorilla Spirits** (near Basingstoke; https://gorillaspirits.co.uk/contract-distilling-bottling/) — Offers production and contract bottling capacity Members emphasise: always check the Kindred group first for liquidation stock and peer offers before placing orders elsewhere. Far East sourcing has hidden costs and cash-flow penalties that often outweigh initial price savings.
Which UK bottle suppliers can supply imported European bottle formats, and what are the alternatives if stock isn't available?
Members looking for European bottle formats (particularly 750ml Dorica) report that UK bottle suppliers often struggle with stock for non-standard formats. Where to look: - **Allied** — recommended by multiple members who've switched to them for bottle supply - **Encirc** — suggested as an alternative when standard suppliers are out of stock - **Erben** — mentioned as another option to try - **Bruni** — Brendan at Bruni reportedly has access to a range of bottles, though availability of specific formats like 750ml Dorica bottles may vary If UK suppliers can't meet your needs, members report importing directly from Europe. For logistics, **DSV** was used for a pallet to Germany at around £300, and members importing from Germany to the UK report costs of approximately £640–£740 per pallet (including admin fees). Lead times and availability remain challenging; one member needed 5 pallets weekly and was still sourcing alternatives.
What are the current bonded warehouse pricing trends and service issues in the UK, and which alternatives are members using?
Members are reporting significant price increases across UK bonded warehouses coupled with stretched service levels. **LCB** has raised landing charges from 50p to 75p per case and storage from 6p to 7.5p per week; they're also experiencing capacity constraints with 3-day landing times and 7-day rework turnarounds, plus strict policies on late deliveries. Current pricing varies slightly by operator—**Horseguards Gin** reports goods-in at 67p and storage at 7.25p per case of 6. Members note the sector is experiencing high demand across the board, driving prices up while service levels decline. Alternatives members are exploring: - **FuturePro Logistics** — used successfully at Seedlip and still in use there; contact Mark@futureprologistics.com, +44 7766 114 897 - **EHD** — praised as not expensive, quick for landing, and offering decent delivery rates Members' general sense is that capacity is tight across all warehousing operators. Those considering alternatives should factor in both pricing and service responsiveness when evaluating providers.
Which UK warehousing and logistics providers do drinks founders recommend?
Members shared a few tested alternatives to major providers. There was strong advice against LCB, with one member emphatically recommending against them. Recommended providers: - **Macintyre Scott (MSX)** — based in Totton; members report they looked after their operation well - **Belvedere Warehousing** — mentioned as an alternative option - **EHD** — described as "great" Members noted that while these providers work, costs can be significant once volumes scale up. One member using a recommended provider for wine storage flagged that pricing isn't competitive at higher volumes, so it's worth negotiating terms based on your anticipated throughput.
What UK bottle spraying and glass decoration services are available for small production runs?
For runs over 1,000 bottles, several UK specialist decorators are regularly used by members. Members recommend contacting suppliers directly as pricing and suitability vary significantly based on print complexity, run size, and whether glass is still at the manufacturer. **Recommended suppliers:** - **Dekorprint** (Birmingham) — regularly used for runs >1k; competitive pricing for tinting work, particularly cost-effective through contact Hardeep - **Nolan at Verallia** — used by members for tinting services - **Colorlites** / **Colourite** — used by members depending on project requirements - **Decor** — another option used by members for varying project types - **Glass manufacturer in-house facilities** — worth checking if your glass supplier offers spraying services, as this can avoid transport and wastage costs if decoration happens before the glass leaves the factory **Key considerations members flagged:** - Transport and wastage costs of external decorators can add up; check if your glass manufacturer can spray before delivery - Pricing varies by print complexity and run size, so get quotes from multiple suppliers - For >1k runs of simple tinting, external decorators typically represent the standard route
What are the best UK suppliers for enolmatic single-head fillers and bar-friendly glassware with quick delivery?
**Enolmatic single-head fillers:** Members recommend several suppliers for equipment and pricing: - **Derek** (https://www.winegrowers.info/wine-equip/enolmatic/info.htm) — used historically by members - **ACO** — frequently used by members for this equipment - **Vigo** — available but noted as expensive by some - **Liquid Solutions** (callum.mitchell@liquidsolutions.co.uk) — used by members - **Polsinelli** (https://www.polsinelli.it/en/enolmatic-filling-machine-P20.htm) — Italian supplier, but import times currently problematic **Bar-friendly glassware with quick delivery:** - **The Lucky Drinker** (https://theluckydrinker.com/) — recommended for bar-friendly glassware with faster turnaround - **GTR** — member connection available if needed - **Aval Dor** — members in the group work with them and can offer direct support - **8Track** — member connection available (Jeremy Mitchell from Upbeat) **Caveats:** Import times from European suppliers like Polsinelli are currently slow. Direct member introductions to suppliers like Aval Dor and 8Track are available within the community if needed.
Who are recommended photographers for long-term product and lifestyle photography projects?
Members recommend the following photographers who have been used successfully for spirits and drinks product/lifestyle work: - **Ersah Hancer** — recommended by multiple members for product and lifestyle photography. Contact: info@limedigitalmarketing.co.uk. Instagram: @ersahhancer. Described as "great" by those who've worked with him. - **Joe** — mentioned as "great" with a background as an ex-bartender, suggesting familiarity with the drinks industry (requires direct introduction via community). - **Chris** — recommended, requires introduction via community members. Members suggest reaching out directly to community contacts for introductions and portfolio reviews before committing to long-term arrangements.
Where can members find co-packing services for liquid bagging, bottling with ROPP closures, pasteurisation, and white-label cocktail production?
Members have recommended several co-packers with different capabilities: **Liquid bagging and boxing:** - **RED Distillery** — Neil can handle liquid bagging and boxing services - **Blackbridge** — Ash offers bagging and boxing; members suggest requesting an introduction **Bonded bottling with ROPP closures, pasteurisation, and small MOQs (1000L+):** - **Ashley Blackbridge** — Recommended as excellent for bonded bottling work - **Rhys Mallows** — Suggested as a contact for this specification - **Giraffe Distillers** — Adam confirmed they can handle custom bottling requirements; will provide credentials, capacity, and MOQ details on request **White-label bottled cocktails for corporate customers:** - **World of Zing** — Pritesh handles significant white-label cocktail bottling work - **Giraffe Distillers** — Can produce bottled cocktails to specification - **Netherlands-based option** — One member mentioned having a contact for a co-packer in the Netherlands if UK capacity is unavailable **How to proceed:** Contact members directly via WhatsApp for introductions, or request decks with credentials, capacity, and MOQ information. Lead times should be discussed for spring/summer delivery needs.
What are the typical import duties, logistics costs, and practical options for importing glass bottles from European suppliers?
Import duties on glass are minimal—members report tens of pounds per pallet rather than significant tariffs. The major cost driver is transport: a single pallet can cost £450, making full truck loads significantly more cost-effective. Members using postponed import VAT accounting avoid upfront VAT; ask suppliers for proof of country of origin to enable this. **Supplier & logistics options:** - **Estal** — popular choice with good stock availability and fast turnarounds; they're opening a UK depot (timeline vague at time of discussion), but smaller orders may not be included in early shipments. Contact **Jonathan Clark** (jonathanc@continentalbottle.co.uk) who handles UK distribution for Estal and may offer better pricing for smaller quantities than direct ordering. - **IP21** — recommended for European sourcing; generally straightforward to work with (not the quickest) and will direct you to **Davies Turner** for import logistics, who members report are good to work with. - **KC Shipping** — noted as the cheapest and reliable freight option at time of discussion, undercutting other providers by hundreds of pounds; they maintain good stock availability. - **Saver Glass** — one member paid £35 import duty on a pallet. **Caveats:** Estal's textured glass with cold-end coating and embossing can have label adhesion difficulties. One member warned that Estal "don't always stick to agreements even if signed" regarding stock delivery. Berlin Packaging was cited as a cautionary tale for poor-quality glass. For NPD trials with small quantities (e.g., 2 pallets), transport costs become a significant proportion of total spend.
Where can we source 330ml NRB green glass bottles, and what are the typical costs and lead times for bespoke large-volume glass bottle orders?
For standard 330ml NRB green glass bottles, members suggest starting with established bottling companies and distributors: **Clearly Drinks** (Sunderland) and **HCC** (Hereford) are recommended as starting points. For canning/bottling trials, **Bottled & Canned** and **Envirocan** are mentioned. For large-volume bespoke bottles, members use these manufacturers: - **Verallia** — regularly used by multiple members - **Vetroelite** — recommended by several members; Italian supplier (vetreriaetrusca.it) - **Brunei Urban** — in use by community members - **Allied** — described as competitive choice with good reputation - **OI** — available but note 24-month lead time - **Kefla**, **Vetro**, and **Herastnik** — also mentioned as options Typical costs and MOQs for bespoke bottles: tooling/molds typically run £15–30k with minimum orders of 25–40k units. Members recommend speaking directly to **Nolan** (contact shared privately within group). **Murphy and Sons** noted for competitive pricing, though slower lead times. Caveats: Large-volume bespoke orders require significant upfront tooling investment and long lead times. OI specifically flagged for 24-month lead times. Smaller-scale needs may be better served by trial services like Bottled & Canned.
What are reliable same-day pallet collection services that don't have restrictive morning cut-off times?
Members report that standard pallet networks often have rigid cut-off times (typically 11am–11:30am), making same-day collection difficult outside those windows. Several options were suggested: - **Palletways** — mentioned as a possibility, but requires a phone call and availability depends on your specific depot. One member reported they were unable to help when approached. - **Evo Logistics** (02034357222) — described as "not cheap but have been good when we've needed them," suggesting they may offer more flexible same-day options than mainstream networks. - **Speedshift** — recommended to contact by phone for same-day collection possibilities. - **Shipley.com** — flagged as another option worth exploring. Members noted that genuine same-day flexibility often requires direct phone contact rather than online booking, as availability and cut-off times vary significantly by depot and operator. Costs are likely to be premium for late or non-standard pickups.
What label printing suppliers offer fast turnaround and reliable supply chains for small batch and trial orders?
Members have recommended several label printing suppliers, with varying strengths for speed and batch size. **For rapid turnaround (1–4 days):** - **Vista Print** — praised for 4-day turnaround, suitable for urgent small runs - **Stickershop** (www.stickershop.co.uk) — mentioned as an option for quick jobs - **The Label Makers** (www.thelabelmakers.co.uk) — described as "great" by members **For reliable standard turnaround (2–3 weeks typically):** - **Berkshire Labels** — multiple members recommended; reliable and well-regarded - **Direct Labels** (sales@directlabelsuk.com) — described as "pretty decent," confirmed contact provided - **Avery** — used for small runs (example: 120 labels), though note they may not offer custom shapes for all products **Broader suppliers (with some caveats):** - **CCL** — usually excellent, but members noted recent paper supply issues due to strikes in Finland (8–10 week wait vs. normal 2–3 weeks at time of discussion) - **Labelapeel** — mentioned but also flagged as affected by Finnish paper strikes **For very small trial batches (50–120 units):** Members suggest contacting suppliers directly about express options; Vista Print's 4-day service and The Label Makers appear most suited to this need. One member noted success with a small 120-unit run via Avery, though custom shapes may limit options. **Caveat:** Supply chain issues affecting label paper (particularly from Finland) have been a known challenge; confirm current lead times directly with suppliers before committing.
What label suppliers can handle very small custom runs of 12–24 labels?
Several options exist for small-batch custom labels: - **Berkshire Labels** — offers digital printing for small runs at around £150–200 per batch, suitable for bespoke orders. - **Vistaprint or similar online print services** — a budget-friendly fallback for very small quantities. - **Local contract manufacturers** — some members have found small operators in shared units or industrial spaces willing to do runs as small as 12–24 labels; one example charges 30p per label using thermal inks (which are alcohol-safe for spirit labels). Note: Local sourcing may offer better per-unit pricing and flexibility, but stock availability and material options may be more limited than with established label firms. Thermal inks are alcohol-compatible, which is important for drinks labels.
What are the recommended logistics operators and suppliers for international distribution routes?
Members have shared contacts and recommendations for specific international logistics and supplier needs, though availability varies by route and partner capacity. **Logistics & Distribution:** - **FWS** — contact Luke Brown (member of group); handles distribution logistics - **PRODEX** — member reached out for wine freight from Provence to Greece (2 pallets) - **Kukla** — unable to service Provence-to-Greece route; check before committing - For **Abu Dhabi exports**, members indicated interest but no specific operator was named in discussions - For **Mexico**, **India**, and **Nigeria** routes — members asked for recommendations but no confirmed operators were provided in the excerpts **Supplier & Production Partners:** - **Bone Idyll** (contact: sam@boneidyll.co.uk) — offers both liquid production and small can runs (125ml); confirmed capacity for 2000+ cans for cocktails - **Printed Cup Company** (printedcupcompany.com) — fast turnaround (within a month) for custom cup production - **freckl.** and **noissue** — recommended for custom printed packing tape with low MOQs **Caveats:** Several routes (Mexico, India, Nigeria, Abu Dhabi) had members seeking contacts but receiving no substantive recommendations, suggesting these may be underserved within the community network. The Provence-to-Greece shipment was still in-progress at the time of discussion, so capacity confirmation needed.
What suppliers can provide bulk sparkling wine or prosecco for ready-to-drink production?
Members recommended several established UK suppliers for bulk sparkling wine and prosecco for RTD use: - **Della Vite** — mentioned as an available bulk wine supplier - **Chapel Down** — recommended as a local option; members can provide introductions - **Coates & Seeley** — recommended as a local UK supplier; members can facilitate introductions - **Oak and Still** — described as "a very good option" for bulk wine; contact luke@oakandstill.co.uk for enquiries For bulk white wine, the same suppliers are likely options. Members suggest reaching out directly with your requirements, and existing community members are willing to make introductions to streamline the process.
What are typical minimum order quantities and lead times for non-carbonated soft drinks manufacturers producing in glass bottles?
Most contract manufacturers for non-carbonated beverages in glass bottles have production MOQs of around **20,000 litres**, though smaller operators exist at lower volumes—be prepared for higher costs of goods at smaller batch sizes. **Recommended manufacturers:** - **Drinks Chef** — contact Joe at joe@drinkschef.com; appears to handle smaller trial volumes **Key considerations:** - Trial volumes (a couple of thousand litres) are possible with smaller manufacturers, but expect significantly steeper per-unit costs compared to hitting the 20k L MOQ - Lead times and exact MOQs vary by producer; confirm directly with manufacturers before committing - For ancillary items like corks and closures, **G&C Packaging** is mentioned as a supplier worth approaching for non-massive MOQs and shorter lead times (members specifically cited wanting to avoid 16-week waits)
What are the current MOQs and where can we source printed and wrapped RTD cans in the UK?
Printed cans currently have very high minimum order quantities—members report that printed options are difficult to access under 300,000 units, making them impractical for many small producers right now. For wrapped and labelled cans at more manageable volumes, the picture is better: - **Wrapped/labelled cans** — Achievable from around 12,000 units upwards; several members confirmed this is viable and indicated willingness to share specific supplier contacts direct message. - **Oasthouse** — Named as a potential supplier, though members also flagged significant operational challenges; one noted "Oasthouse are generally a nuisance to deal with" and another reported that Bloody Drinks had "a nightmare" going through them. Use with caution. - **Crown** — Previously used by members but their MOQs were reported as "getting crazy earlier this year," making them less competitive. - **Ball** — Members asked for contacts but no specific feedback was provided in the discussion. **Key caveat:** The printed-can market is tight right now. Members described it as "a nightmare" and advised that achieving true printed cans under 300,000 units is "very tough" or not currently possible. Wrapped or labelled alternatives are the realistic short-term option for smaller runs.
What are the best options for quick-turnaround label and sticker printing?
Members recommend several suppliers for fast label and sticker printing, particularly when lead times are tight. - **Fastlabels** — recommended for quick turnaround - **4 Print** (contact John) — mentioned as a flexible option for both labels and stickers, suitable for rapid jobs - **Ival** — suggested as another quick-turnaround option - **Tortuga** — mentioned in conversation; one member asked about experience with them (unclear if recommended or just being explored) Members distinguish between label printing (for bottles/products) and sticker printing (decorative/event stickers), and some suppliers handle both. For event-based sticker needs with short deadlines, these names recur as go-to options.
What are the best suppliers for bulk lime juice (100L+)?
Members recommend contacting fresh citrus juice suppliers directly for bulk orders. - **Juiced in Time** (Instagram: @juicedintimefm) — offers freshly squeezed lime juice - **+44 7766 279563** — a Chiswick-based operator who presses lemons and limes; can handle bulk volumes - **Fresh Citrus MCR** (freshcitrusmcr.co.uk) — described as "great" by members for citrus juice supply Members recommend reaching out via the contact details or social channels above to discuss your specific volume requirements (100L+). Direct contact allows for negotiation on pricing and delivery for bulk orders.
Where can we source tamper-proof seals and heat-shrink caps for spirits bottles?
Members recommend reaching out directly within the community for supplier contacts, as several people have established relationships with tamper-proof seal and heat-shrink cap providers. **Direct peer introductions** — Multiple members indicated they have good contacts for tamper-proof seals and heat-shrink cap styles. The recommended approach is to message these members directly for introductions. **Existing inventory** — Members occasionally have surplus glass, stoppers, and heat-shrink supplies available from previous large-volume purchases, which can be sourced at cost-plus pricing. These are typically held in warehouse stock (e.g. Midlands-based distribution) and sold by the pallet. Note: The discussion suggests **Bobbins and Berlin** was a previous supplier option, but members indicated this source no longer has adequate stock or suitable replacements, which is why alternative sourcing became necessary.
What are the best low-MOQ packaging suppliers for bespoke bottles, labels, and gift packaging?
Members have successfully found bespoke packaging and labels from suppliers willing to work with small minimum order quantities. Here are the specific suppliers the community recommends: - **Printed Easy** — praised for simple, no-fuss approach to small MOQs; clarify your finish requirements (e.g. foil, embossing) before approaching - **Dairi Pak** — recommended for low-MOQ packaging - **The Packaging Experts** (thepackagingexperts.co.uk) — listed as a resource for packaging solutions Members note that when approaching suppliers, be clear about your finish specifications (foil, embossing, etc.) as this affects lead times and pricing. The community is active in sharing direct supplier contacts privately, so asking in the group for referrals to specific makers they've used (with request for turnaround times) tends to yield faster results than cold outreach.
What design agencies and designers do members recommend for rebranding and packaging projects?
Members recommend several designers and agencies with direct experience in drinks rebranding and packaging: - **WeLaunch** (Stuart Lang) — recommended for rebrand and packaging work; members note they're also happy to provide introductions - **Aitch Creates** (harry@aitchcreates.com, https://aitchcreates.com/portfolio/) — designer recommended by members - **Buddy Creative** (mark@buddycreative.com, https://buddycreative.com) — noted as "worth a shout" - **Max Agace** (http://www.maxagace.com) — highly rated ("👌🏼") For relabelling services on existing stock (e.g. cans), members also mention **Codex Solutions** — described as "very flexible" for ad hoc duty-paid relabelling work, and **WeLaunch** can facilitate introductions to relabelling suppliers. No detailed pricing or lead-time information was shared in the discussion.
Where can wine bottle closures (shrink capsules and Vinolok) be sourced, particularly in the UK?
Members are actively seeking alternatives to traditional suppliers due to price pressures. **Bruni** has recently increased prices by 25%, prompting searches for other PVC/PET shrink capsule manufacturers. **Seven Tails** closures are sourced through **La Martiniques** in France, where they are assembled; this supplier offers competitive pricing on bulk orders due to aggregated buying across multiple brand labels. For **Vinolok** closures specifically, members have mentioned sourcing from **Berlin** (likely referring to a German supplier, though details are limited). **Prowein** (the trade show) has been referenced as a venue where members have made valuable supplier connections and visited facilities. For logistics support, **Hillebrand** (contact: diana.estelanecochea@hillebrandgori.com) has been used successfully for international shipments, including samples to Italy and shipments to Dubai, at approximately £100 for 2 × 70cl bottles from London. **UPS** is another option members have used for sample shipments. Members suggest coordinating shipment costs with peers attending Prowein to split shipping expenses.
What are the best suppliers for branded equipment like magnetic signage, printed boards, and promotional jigging tools?
Members have had mixed success finding high-quality branded equipment domestically and internationally. Here are the specific suppliers and approaches mentioned: **For printed boards and signage:** - **Pixartprinting** — recommended for custom aluminium printed boards, handles custom sizes and shapes - **Vistaprint** — suggested for smaller orders if you don't need large MOQs - **uk.staci.com** — offers sourcing to storage and fulfilment services for major players; MOQs unclear from discussion **For jigging tools and promotional equipment:** - **Alibaba suppliers** — one member sourced via Alibaba and reported significantly better quality at roughly 1/3 of UK pricing, though they emphasised they had only received samples at that point and couldn't yet confirm service levels or full delivery quality **Key caveats:** Members noted particular difficulty finding high-quality branded equipment at reasonable prices through UK suppliers alone, which is why some are exploring international options. If using overseas suppliers, allow time for sample approval before committing to larger orders, as service levels and final quality can vary. No detailed lead time data was provided in the discussion, so it's worth requesting this directly from suppliers when quoting.
What are the typical minimum order quantities for custom printed or sleeved cans?
The major can suppliers (Crown, Ball, Ardagh) typically have high MOQs that make small-run launches challenging. For limited releases under 10,000 units: - **Oasthouse Engineering** — specifically mentioned as a supplier for small MOQ cans, recommended for shorter runs - **Sleeved/labelled cans** — considered more achievable than fully printed cans for smaller quantities - **Standard printed cans** — major suppliers (Crown, Ball, Ardagh) start at 50,000+ minimum order quantities Members working on launches of 5–10,000 units were advised to explore sleeved alternatives or contact specialists like Oasthouse Engineering rather than the large-scale producers. For specifics on your run size and format, direct outreach to suppliers is recommended.
Which invoice financing providers offer competitive terms and good service for growing drinks businesses?
Members recommend several invoice financing firms with proven track records in the sector. The key is to actively compare fees, as rates vary significantly. **Recommended providers:** - **Gapcap** — praised as "pretty good" by members who've worked with them - **AcceleratedPayments** — reported to work well - **Lloyds** — described as working "very well" - **Close Brothers** — noted as "excellent" by recent users; ask for Péter Hook (ex-Aldermore), described as a "really nice guy" - **Credit Agricole** — members found this option ~50% cheaper than Aldermore in recent fee analysis - **Aldermore** — members have used this for 18+ months but flag that recent fee analysis showed significantly higher costs than competitors; one member also reported they attempted to include a personal guarantee in the contract without explicit discussion or consent, which they had to challenge **Key caveats:** - Do your own fee comparison before committing—rates differ substantially between providers - Close Brothers was noted as "quite old school," which may or may not suit your preference - At least one member raised concerns about Aldermore's contracting practices; review terms carefully - Request fee comparisons upfront when vetting providers For specialist support, members mentioned **Trent Peek** (01623 259 580, trent@wearefulfilment.co.uk) as a recommended contact, though the context suggests he may provide broader supply-chain support rather than financing specifically.
What contract bottlers and bottling services are available for under-bond and sterile bottling in the UK?
Members recommend reaching out to the following contract bottlers for under-bond and general bottling services: - **Kingsland Drinks** (Manchester) — recommended for under-bond bottling work - **CB Glasgow** (https://www.cbglasgow.com/) — listed as a bottling option - **Burlington Bottling** (https://burlingtonbottling.com/) — general contract bottling - **Alcohol Solutions** (https://www.alcohol-solutions.co.uk/) — contract bottling services - **Startup Drinks Lab** (https://www.startupdrinkslab.com/) — contract bottling for new brands - **Beamspack** (https://www.beamspack.com/) — bottling and packaging services - **Greencroft Bottling** (https://www.greencroftbottling.com/) — contract bottling option - **Proof Drinks** — mentioned as a potential partner (some members have worked with them) Members noted that finding under-bond bottlers for specific formats can be challenging, especially for newer products like carbonated RTDs in 750ml bottles. It's worth contacting multiple providers and being clear about your format, volume requirements, and whether you need sterile bottling capability, as not all contract bottlers offer the full range of services.
Which label printers do members recommend for UK drinks packaging?
Members recommend several reputable label printers with direct contacts: - **Reflex Labels** — described as "awesome" and going "over and above". Contact: Sara Lane, saral@reflexlabelplus.co.uk, 07736 925860 - **Eclipse** — praised as "great" - **Berkshire Labels** — described as "decent". Contact: raluca.balcanu@berkshirelabels.co.uk These are the suppliers members have had direct positive experience with and are willing to recommend to peers.
Which label and can design agencies offer premium, illustrative design with strong brand differentiation at reasonable cost?
Members recommend several design agencies that deliver premium, illustrative can and label work without the premium price tag of high-end firms like Stranger and Stranger: - **Studio Minerva** — praised for quality of work and described as a great team; recommended for can design projects. - **Wonder Works** — member-recommended for label and packaging design, though noted to be more expensive than the budget-conscious 10% of top-tier firms. - **Gigantic Creative** — floated as an alternative option for brand-focused design work. - **Oveja & Remi** — suggested as another option, with offers to make introductions available within the community. Members emphasize the importance of finding designers who understand competitor differentiation and can deliver luxury or premium aesthetic. Requests for direct contact details and introductions are common within the community, suggesting personal referrals are valued. The cost-quality trade-off appears to be the main consideration, with most recommendations positioned as mid-market alternatives to top-tier luxury design agencies.
How do I find and verify a specific bottle design for spirits packaging?
Finding a specific bottle design often requires working with multiple suppliers and being flexible on exact matches, as bottles are frequently sold under different names across markets. - **Bruni** — members recommend checking their Belleville bottle as a similar option to hard-to-trace designs; ask about cork vs GPI (screw-top) specifications - **Kefla** — suggested as another supplier for bottles with similar profiles to uncommon designs - **Cross-reference by specifications** — if you can't find a bottle by name, try searching by key specs: identify whether it's cork mouth or GPI (threaded), the volume (e.g. 70cl), and the general shape, then approach suppliers with those details - **Expect variation** — clients may have very specific bottle requirements that don't exactly match standard lines; be prepared to show samples or negotiate on near-matches rather than exact replicas When sourcing, having the cork/GPI specification and volume locked down first makes it much easier to track down similar bottles across European suppliers.
What are the pain points and practical considerations when outsourcing contract bottling for spirits, and which UK bottlers do members recommend?
Contract bottling can introduce logistical friction into your production timeline, but members find it worthwhile as a scaling solution. Here's what the community has experienced: **Recommended bottlers:** - **Young Spirits** (Edinburgh) — praised for reliability and quality output - **Boss Brewing** (Wales) — currently bottling for at least one member; described as a working partner despite logistical challenges **Key pain points:** - Lead times are tight and can be a constraint; short turnaround is a priority for many members - The outsourced process introduces coordination complexity that members describe as frustrating but manageable **Finding bottlers:** - Direct outreach works: asking within the community and connecting via email introductions has led to useful partnerships - Location matters less than capability and availability — members are willing to work with bottlers across the UK (Scotland to Wales) **Bottom line:** Members acknowledge contract bottling adds friction but see it as a necessary step when scaling production. The key is finding a bottler with short lead times and reliable output.