Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What are cost-effective sources for UK spirits and RTD market data, and what current retail value data is available?
Members face the same challenge: IWSR and traditional market research are expensive. Here's what the community actually does: **DIY research options:** - Search trademark and brand-name availability yourself across UK, EU, and USA platforms (free but labour-intensive; USA particularly complex with overlapping trademarks). Note that trademark classes 33 (spirits) and 32 (beers) overlap, so check both. **Consultants and studios:** - **United Creatives** (Manchester) — suggested as a potential affordable data source - **Joe Bowker at Gorilla Studio** (Manchester) — recommended for market research support **Shared community data:** - Members have begun sharing internal spreadsheets (e.g. "United Kingdom_Spirits.xlsx" — 2023 data) within the group. Andy has shared a detailed spirits document; he was also checking for similar RTD-category-specific breakdowns. Ask directly in the group if members will share what they've compiled. **Caveat:** One member noted that ChatGPT and generic online searches don't account for international trademarks and may miss nuance. The community's own pooled data and consultant recommendations are more reliable than generic tools.
When should a brand switch from a retainer-based distributor to other models, and what alternatives exist in the UK?
If a retainer-based distributor isn't delivering results and the model is unprofitable after fees and commissions, it's worth exploring alternatives rather than staying with underperforming partners out of inertia. **Key alternative models members recommend:** - **Tortuga** — Handles logistics and warehousing so you retain margin; you then recruit your own sales team. Members suggest this can be cheaper than traditional retainer models and provides access to online retailers. - **No-retainer distributor partnerships** — Seek distributors (like Cask, Paragon, or Proof Drinks) willing to work on commission-only or performance-based terms rather than fixed retainers. This aligns their incentives with your success. - **Own UK importing company** — Setting up your own entity avoids distributor fees entirely, but requires boots-on-the-ground presence and operational overhead. - **Direct-to-retail targeting** — Focus on 5–10 hyper-relevant, high-end accounts (1–4 sites each) and build deep relationships there; volume follows when venues love the product. - **Direct online channels** — Amazon UK can work well with modest paid ad spend (especially seasonal), and may generate better returns than slow trade channels. **Context and caveats:** - The UK market is currently challenging (Brexit, cost of living, retail consolidation, pay-to-play models). - Trade channels move slowly; high-end on-premise wins may not translate to volume. - Big-box retailers (Waitrose, major chains) are difficult to crack and distributors often struggle to secure listings there. - Being based overseas makes boots-on-the-ground execution harder; consider whether you can commit time or hire UK-based salespeople. - Members suggest exploring conversations with Ciaran Macnic (Tortuga) or the Cask/Paragon/Proof teams to understand their specific terms.
What are the pros and cons of retainer-based versus commission-only distributor models for UK spirits brands, and what alternatives exist?
High retainer fees can lock brands into unprofitable arrangements with little incentive for distributors to actively sell. Members report that traditional retainer models often fail to deliver results while consuming margin, especially when distributor portfolios are oversized and staff turnover is high. **Alternative distributor models:** - **Tortuga** — handles all logistics while you retain margin and recruit your own sales team; potentially cheaper than traditional retainers - **Cask, Paragon, and Proof drinks** — members report these may offer no-retainer partnership options (contact @Chris Jones Paragon, @Paul Ferguson, @Stuart Ekins for details) - **Commission-only partnerships with aligned distributors** — members recommend finding partners who share passion for your brand rather than settling for passive "devil you know" arrangements - **Newly-formed importation companies** — at least one member is setting up a no-retainer import model specifically to address this market gap; worth exploring confidential conversations **Key challenges in the current UK market:** - Retainers create zero risk for distributors and little incentive to push volume - Major competitors are buying menu space and listing fees, making it hard to compete on quality alone - Staff rotation at importer, wholesaler, and account level disrupts momentum just as volume builds - Trade route to market is slow; online channels (e.g., Amazon UK with ad spend) often outperform **Tactical alternative:** Position as a secondary ingredient/cocktail enhancer to secure listings at 10–20ml pours without upfront fees, avoiding the pay-to-play licensing model. **Caveat:** The current UK market (post-Brexit, cost of living crisis, retailer consolidation) is genuinely difficult; expectations should be realistic but a well-aligned distributor with incentive alignment can outperform a retained but unmotivated partner.