Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
How should a drinks brand structure its sales team—hiring experienced individual sales leaders, building telesales/field teams, using a fractional rep, or working with a sales agency?
There is no one-size-fits-all answer; the right approach depends on your brand stage, category, geography, and exit strategy. **Key structural options and trade-offs:** - **Experienced single sales leader** — Can leverage existing contacts and break even faster than junior hires (6–12 months vs. 1+ year for juniors). However, they're expensive, and even strong performers struggle in low-brand-loyalty environments. Risk is significant: you won't know if someone will deliver until 3 months in. - **Telesales teams (2–3 days/week)** — Lower cost model, though less effective overall. Members note most sales people are not that effective regardless of structure. - **Field/ground sales focused on on-trade wholesale** — Increasingly difficult to justify in premium spirits. Bars chase margin and deals, not brand loyalty; even winning a listing won't stick long. The opportunity cost is high and ROI is poor. - **Fractional sales rep (covering multiple brands)** — Shared cost reduces your outlay, but dilutes focus. Better for early stage or niche categories; less suitable if you need dedicated attention. London on-trade is a brutally hard market. - **Sales agency** — Worth exploring, especially for London on-trade focus (e.g., **Nomad Collection** mentioned, though one member found limited traction). Reduces hiring risk and management burden. **Stage matters:** - **Early stage:** Focus on a small geographic area, build relationships with venues, attend in-person. Hire someone passionate and charismatic, not necessarily expensive. You (the founder) will win more business than most—consider hiring ops/finance support instead so you can spend time selling. - **National/larger accounts:** More commercial approach needed; bigger salary expectations, longer conversion, and expensive listings with heavy rebates. **Financial reality:** - Budget £5,000/month for a sales role. Members report send/return of ~£600/week spend → £1,750–£2,000 return; YMMV. - Don't forget employment costs: training, pension, National Insurance, equipment, travel, expenses, and your management time. - Regional and national teams have struggled on pure annual ROI. They're typically a longer-term investment (2+ years) and only work if you feed in larger national customers to make the numbers stack. **Critical caveats:** - Category and brand quality matter. Niche or difficult categories (e.g., saké) require genuine passion and product knowledge, not just sales skills. Education of the trade is slow and hard. Pure sales ability alone may not be enough if your category is unfamiliar. - Selling exposes your brand to trade scrutiny; founders often have inflated opinions of their brand. Sales teams reveal the hard truth about your ROS and distribution readiness. This is valuable but uncomfortable. - London is the hardest market globally. If hiring one rep for London, they must be multi-skilled in pure sales, with strong input-focused KPIs (activity metrics) to catch weakness early. Activity is a dying art. - For on-trade, distributors may be a better option: you lose exclusive focus, but reduce outlay and benefit from portfolio scale. However, you'll also lose control and visibility—this is a moment of truth for your brand. - Align your sales approach to your exit strategy: Are you building to sell the business one day, or to make money along the way? This shapes investment level and timeline. - For niche categories, product and brand communication matter more than sales effort alone. Product should be easy to communicate; education is a slow path. Positioning and on-trade creativity (inspiring bartenders) can be more powerful than traditional sales technique.
Where should drinks founders source talent for brand development, marketing, and operations roles?
Recruitment is competitive in the drinks sector, but several channels have proven effective. **LinkedIn Recruiter** has been the most successful for members—it allows filtering by job title and industry (e.g. "digital marketing executive" in "food and beverages"), then reaching out via DM to relevant candidates. The volume of generic applicants via standard LinkedIn job posts is high but mostly irrelevant. **The Copy Club** has been recommended specifically for marketing and operations roles. They pre-screen applicants before forwarding them to you, which eliminates unsuitable candidates. Members can request a contact number internally. **University careers teams** — if you have connections at universities around the country, careers teams can be a source of graduate talent; members with academic links are happy to facilitate introductions via DM. **Professional networks** have yielded the best candidates for members filling recent roles, suggesting that word-of-mouth and industry connections outperform formal recruitment channels. Members note that the recruitment market has been tough, with many generic job-board candidates being unsuitable. The most successful approach requires active prospecting rather than passive job posting.
What are members' experiences with Gradfuel as a graduate recruitment placement service?
Members reported mixed and largely negative experiences with Gradfuel as a graduate recruitment provider. **Gradfuel** presented themselves as having national coverage but admitted they only had London-based resources, causing issues for companies outside the capital (e.g. Manchester-based hiring). Specific problems included: - **Limited candidate pool**: One member received only one applicant for a brand ambassador role after initial placement, forcing them to re-specify the position to accounts administrator instead. - **Poor transparency**: A candidate was placed through Gradfuel without disclosing they had previously been employed through the same scheme, leading to the placement being withdrawn. - **Credit loss**: Members reported unused placement credits effectively disappearing—one member asked if their third credit "disappeared into thin air" with no clear resolution. - **Incomplete placements**: One contact (Henrietta Tillbury) worked with a company but was unable to fill a third position after two initial placements succeeded. Members described the start as "really painful" and noted Gradfuel's national credentials pitch did not match their actual service capability. At least one member explored formal complaints about lost placements.
How can we recruit sales staff and brand ambassadors for on-trade and regional positions in a competitive market?
Recruiting sales talent in the drinks industry is currently a candidates' market with significant shortages across the sector, even for larger producers. Members recommend these approaches: - **Direct community networking** — Post your needs in the Kindred Collective Slack/WhatsApp; members may have personal referrals or know candidates directly (peer-to-peer introductions have proven effective). - **Recruitment agencies** — Several members are currently using recruiters to fill sales and distillery roles due to the competitive landscape; specifics should be requested from members actively hiring. - **Regional targeting** — Members have successfully sourced candidates by publicly requesting recommendations for specific regions (e.g., East Anglia area), with positive responses from the network. **Important note:** Members emphasised that the current market is extremely tight and even large drinks brands are struggling to fill vacant positions. Be prepared for longer timelines and consider offering competitive terms. The group is willing to share recruiter contacts privately—reach out to members currently hiring.
How do you hire and employ sales ambassadors in Australia while managing them from the UK?
Hiring sales ambassadors in Australia to work on major retail listings (like Coles Group) while employing them from the UK requires careful consideration of costs and employment structure. **Key considerations:** - **Employment costs** — Members warn that putting Australian staff directly on the books is expensive; explore alternative structures before committing to full employment - **On-the-ground presence** — Having a founder or team member physically in Australia during the hiring and initial rollout phase is valuable for understanding the market and managing ambassadors effectively - **Retail focus** — Sales ambassador roles often centre on securing and supporting placement with major Australian retailers like Coles Group **Next steps:** Members suggest reaching out directly to other founders with Australian operations (e.g., those expanding brands like WKD into the market) for specific advice on payroll structures, visa considerations, and local recruitment practices. A direct conversation with someone actively hiring in-market is more valuable than generic guidance, as the specifics vary significantly by employment model and company structure.
How can small drinks brands protect themselves from aggressive recruiter fee claims and predatory practices?
Some recruiters are using aggressive tactics to claim fees, including sending unsolicited CVs with terms and conditions embedded in emails, then claiming acceptance and threatening legal action for 25%+ fees even when you're already working with another recruiter or the candidate came via a different source. **Key protective measures:** - **Document everything** — Keep clear records of which recruiter (if any) initially sent each candidate to you. Email chains proving the source are your best defence against false claims. - **Respond explicitly to unsolicited recruiter emails** — If a recruiter sends you CVs with T&Cs, reply explicitly stating you do not accept their terms and are not engaging their services. Don't let silence be interpreted as acceptance. - **Don't sign anything** — Avoid signing recruiter paperwork unless you've actively chosen to work with them. Embedded T&Cs in emails do not create a binding agreement. - **Know the reality of their threats** — Members note that most recruiters threatening court action lack the time and resources to actually follow through. However, it's still worth the small effort of formally declining their terms to avoid any stress. **Caveat:** This is an old problem in recruitment, and while aggressive, most claims are bluffs. Still, a simple written rejection of their terms is cheap insurance against the headache.
Which recruitment agencies do members recommend for hiring senior marketing and commercial staff in the drinks industry?
Members have limited but positive experience with specialist recruiters for senior roles. The main recommendation: - **Marvel** — recommended for senior marketing and commercial positions; contact details available from members. Members also noted that **Indeed** charges significant fees and encouraged exploring alternatives beyond major job boards. Several members indicated they have additional recruitment suggestions available via direct message, suggesting a network of trusted contacts exists within the community for specific hiring needs. **Note:** The community discussion suggests personal referrals and word-of-mouth are the primary method for vetting recruiters in this space—members explicitly named "quite a few bad ones" but preferred to recommend only those they'd directly used or trusted.
How should a founder split their time between direct selling and business operations when starting out?
Founders typically win more business than hired salespeople because they know the brand better and buyers value direct founder relationships. The optimal time allocation depends on your stage and strategy. **Early-stage approach:** Focus heavily on direct selling in a small geographic area, building relationships in trade venues and maintaining regular contact. You don't need an expensive salesperson yet—prioritise someone passionate and charismatic who can convince bar owners to stock your products. **Operational support:** Hire in other areas like ops and finance so you can spend more time selling—the activity that matters most. This keeps your payroll small while freeing you to do what only you can do effectively. **National/commercial accounts:** Once pursuing bigger accounts, expect longer sales cycles, higher listing fees, and heavy rebates. This is when hiring more experienced (and expensive) sales talent becomes necessary. **Hybrid distributor model:** Consider using a good distributor with niche, high-quality brands and strong on-trade networks. Let them do the heavy lifting while you focus on making your brand their top performer. Keep your own team small and build profits until you either attract larger distributors or have capital to expand your own sales effort. **Exit strategy matters:** Members noted that your time allocation should align with your long-term exit strategy—whether you're building for acquisition, sustainable profits, or rapid growth. Members emphasised that founders often accomplish more in a day than typical salespeople do in a week, making direct selling the highest-leverage use of founder time.
What are typical salary ranges and costs for hiring marketing managers, production managers, and marketing agencies for a growing drinks brand?
Members report the following ranges for key hires and services: **Marketing & Brand Management:** - **Brand Manager (in-house)** — £40–45k for decent candidates; £50–60k+ for strong performers. **Marketing & PR Services:** - **PR Agency** — Starting around £3–5k for passable service, though members note this is often not worth the investment. - **Freelance PR Expert** — £1–2k per month, often preferred over agencies as they offer flexibility and can be highly effective. - **Social Media Agency** — Around £4–5k, though members note these struggle to combine strategy, copywriting, and design well. - **Freelance Social Media Specialists** — More difficult to find as a single person rarely combines all required skills (strategy, copywriting, design); members suggest dissecting your priorities and finding specialists in those specific areas rather than expecting one person to do it all. **Key Caveat:** Members emphasise that "cheap" agencies (£1–2k) will be "pointless" — quality work requires appropriate investment. The fractional/freelancer route is often more cost-effective than full-service agencies, provided you can clearly define what you need.
What are the best practices and platforms for recruiting drinks-industry talent?
Members report mixed success with traditional job boards. **LinkedIn** has become problematic due to its one-click apply feature, which generates high volumes of irrelevant applications; recruiters using the platform also tend to put forward the same candidates repeatedly, often with inflated salary expectations relative to the role. The community's preferred approach is **organic sourcing through personal recommendations and networks**. Several members emphasize this yields better-quality candidates than paid recruitment channels. Direct referrals from trusted contacts within the industry appear to be the most reliable method for finding relevant talent, particularly for specialist roles. Note: The market is currently challenging for mid-market employers without large recruitment budgets; candidates are increasingly seeking significant salary premiums (10–20%+ above advertised) even for standard roles.
What are the current challenges in recruiting administrative and office staff for drinks businesses?
Members are reporting significant difficulty finding suitable administrative and office personnel, even for well-paid roles. One member posted to Fish-4-Jobs and Reed simultaneously and received 10 applicants over three weeks, but none were suitable—notably, 6 of the applicants were from overseas. The member noted this was the most challenging recruitment experience they'd had in the industry, questioning whether COVID-related factors were contributing to the shortage of quality candidates for administrative positions.