Ask the Collective

#market-research#data-access#supplier-contacts#category-insights

Where can members access market research data on spirits category growth and sales trends?

Members have identified several routes to obtain spirits market data: - **DBT** — trade advisers provide reports free of charge; the collective has a named contact (Michael Jolley) who has access to a load of useful information and has been willing to make introductions within the group - **IWSR reports** — members reference these regularly for category-specific data (gin, brandy, etc.); available by request and members have shared access - **IRI grocery spirits data** — UK supermarket-level data by retailer; members have sought this out for 2023 total market analysis, though acquiring it requires identifying the right contact - **Nielsen IQ** — holds equivalent data to IRI; members suggest playing Nielsen against other providers to negotiate price down - **Local library access** — one member reported successfully accessing Nielsen reports free of charge through their local library as an alternative route **How to access:** The most reliable path appears to be leveraging connections within the Kindred Collective—members have been willing to make introductions to their trade adviser contacts. For IWSR and IRI data specifically, asking within the group has yielded results when someone has a direct subscription or relationship. **Caveat:** IRI grocery data in particular can be difficult to source independently; it appears members sometimes rely on peer sharing or institutional access rather than direct purchase.

#sales-team-structure#on-trade#hiring#roe-and-roi

How should a drinks brand structure its sales team—hiring experienced individual sales leaders, building telesales/field teams, using a fractional rep, or working with a sales agency?

There is no one-size-fits-all answer; the right approach depends on your brand stage, category, geography, and exit strategy. **Key structural options and trade-offs:** - **Experienced single sales leader** — Can leverage existing contacts and break even faster than junior hires (6–12 months vs. 1+ year for juniors). However, they're expensive, and even strong performers struggle in low-brand-loyalty environments. Risk is significant: you won't know if someone will deliver until 3 months in. - **Telesales teams (2–3 days/week)** — Lower cost model, though less effective overall. Members note most sales people are not that effective regardless of structure. - **Field/ground sales focused on on-trade wholesale** — Increasingly difficult to justify in premium spirits. Bars chase margin and deals, not brand loyalty; even winning a listing won't stick long. The opportunity cost is high and ROI is poor. - **Fractional sales rep (covering multiple brands)** — Shared cost reduces your outlay, but dilutes focus. Better for early stage or niche categories; less suitable if you need dedicated attention. London on-trade is a brutally hard market. - **Sales agency** — Worth exploring, especially for London on-trade focus (e.g., **Nomad Collection** mentioned, though one member found limited traction). Reduces hiring risk and management burden. **Stage matters:** - **Early stage:** Focus on a small geographic area, build relationships with venues, attend in-person. Hire someone passionate and charismatic, not necessarily expensive. You (the founder) will win more business than most—consider hiring ops/finance support instead so you can spend time selling. - **National/larger accounts:** More commercial approach needed; bigger salary expectations, longer conversion, and expensive listings with heavy rebates. **Financial reality:** - Budget £5,000/month for a sales role. Members report send/return of ~£600/week spend → £1,750–£2,000 return; YMMV. - Don't forget employment costs: training, pension, National Insurance, equipment, travel, expenses, and your management time. - Regional and national teams have struggled on pure annual ROI. They're typically a longer-term investment (2+ years) and only work if you feed in larger national customers to make the numbers stack. **Critical caveats:** - Category and brand quality matter. Niche or difficult categories (e.g., saké) require genuine passion and product knowledge, not just sales skills. Education of the trade is slow and hard. Pure sales ability alone may not be enough if your category is unfamiliar. - Selling exposes your brand to trade scrutiny; founders often have inflated opinions of their brand. Sales teams reveal the hard truth about your ROS and distribution readiness. This is valuable but uncomfortable. - London is the hardest market globally. If hiring one rep for London, they must be multi-skilled in pure sales, with strong input-focused KPIs (activity metrics) to catch weakness early. Activity is a dying art. - For on-trade, distributors may be a better option: you lose exclusive focus, but reduce outlay and benefit from portfolio scale. However, you'll also lose control and visibility—this is a moment of truth for your brand. - Align your sales approach to your exit strategy: Are you building to sell the business one day, or to make money along the way? This shapes investment level and timeline. - For niche categories, product and brand communication matter more than sales effort alone. Product should be easy to communicate; education is a slow path. Positioning and on-trade creativity (inspiring bartenders) can be more powerful than traditional sales technique.

#label-suppliers#packaging#suppliers

Which label suppliers do members recommend for glass bottles, and what are their contact details?

Members recommend several reliable label suppliers for glass bottles with competitive pricing: - **MCC** — frequently recommended by multiple members - **Label Apeel** — noted as having done "quite a bit of work with other Kindreds" - **Berkshire Labels** — established supplier in the network - **Vale Labels** — used by at least one member - **Reflex** (contact: saral@reflexlabelplus.co.uk) — praised for competitive pricing ("a little cheaper than Berkshire") and responsiveness; Sara at Reflex is noted as "awesome" and has helped members with tight deadlines Members suggest tendering across these suppliers to compare pricing and capability for front, back, and neck labels on glass bottles.

#glassware#suppliers#branded-products#sourcing

Where can we source branded or custom-decorated glassware, and what are typical turnaround times?

Members recommend several established glassware suppliers for branded products, with varying turnaround times and capabilities. **Key suppliers:** - **Rastal** — mentioned multiple times as a reliable option with quicker turnaround than some competitors; can handle decoration/branding - **Festival Glass** — frequently recommended but noted to have longer lead times (8–12 weeks quoted); capable of branded glassware - **Utopia** — suggested as an alternative for decoration and branding; worth enquiring with - **Artis UK** (https://www.artis-uk.com/) — noted as good quality but slower turnaround - **Drinkstuff** (https://www.drinkstuff.com/products/glassware.asp) — has a great range and works well for smaller runs, but cannot print on designs (less cost-effective) - **Willis Publicity** — mentioned as worth trying, particularly for ice buckets **Turnaround summary:** Rastal appears to offer quicker turnaround than Festival Glass. Members should enquire directly with both to compare current lead times. **Caveats:** Festival Glass does not stock highball glasses in all ranges. Artis UK is reliable but slower. Drinkstuff cannot provide printing on their designs, making them suitable for undecorated stock only.

#employment-law#dismissal#probation#hr-procedures

How should I dismiss an employee during probation for misconduct, and what legal protections do I have?

During the probation period (first 2 years of employment), dismissal for misconduct is significantly simpler than after probation ends. The key legal difference is that employees with less than 2 years' service have limited recourse to unfair dismissal claims. **What members reported:** - **Probation period advantage** — If the employee has worked less than 2 years, you have stronger legal ground. Members noted "the law is on your side here" when dismissing within this window, though you should still follow proper procedures. - **Discrimination claims remain a risk** — While unfair dismissal claims are weaker during probation, discrimination claims (gender, race, etc.) can still be filed at any point and carry real legal risk. One member warned: "if she gets good advice and is bloody minded… a gender-discrimination claim will bog you down in a legal mire you don't want to be anywhere near." Timing of employment makes no difference to discrimination law. - **Follow a formal process** — Members who successfully navigated dismissals reported following "a 6 step plan" and getting advice from HR professionals. One member secured a resignation with negotiated severance (1 month's pay) by following proper procedures. - **Get HR advice** — The community strongly recommended consulting an HR expert before proceeding. One member offered to DM the original questioner; another noted they consulted "a senior HR person from John Lewis." **Caveat:** Even with strong evidence of misconduct (drinking on duty, inappropriate customer statements, poor staff management), follow formal dismissal procedures to avoid discrimination claims, which carry legal and financial risk regardless of probation status.

#cream-liqueur#co-packing#suppliers#production

Where can I find a cream liqueur producer or co-packer?

Several cream liqueur producers and co-packers are active in the UK and Ireland drinks scene. Members recommend: - **Coole Swan** — established Irish cream liqueur brand, well-regarded within the community - **Hensol** — produces vegan cream liqueur using coconut milk base - **Licor43** — supplies Horchata, a vegan cream liqueur made from tiger nut (Spain's no. 1 liqueur brand) - **Creamy Creation** — recommended as a potential supplier - **Niche Drinks** (Northern Ireland) — co-packer with proven track record; members have worked with them successfully - **West Cork distillery** — produces cream liqueurs; available for direct conversation about specific needs - **Custom producer** — One member's company produces cream liqueurs at scale, recently won a silver award for Tequila Strawberry Cream, and manufactures private-label volumes for major retailers. They are open to helping and noted they're shortly expanding dedicated cream production lines. **Important caveat:** Members emphasised that when selecting a producer, **verify they can actually produce the liquid to your specification** — don't assume capability without confirmation. Plant-based/vegan formulations are available if needed.

#legal#accounting#professional-services#small-business

What legal and accounting services do members recommend for small drinks businesses?

Members consistently recommend a handful of specialist providers that offer good value for small businesses needing employment contracts, tax advice, and corporate structuring. **Legal services:** - **Seed Legals** — Multiple members praised this service; used for employment contracts, share transfers, director's agreements, and fundraising documentation. Members offer referral introductions. - **iLaw (Justin Ellis)** — Highly recommended by at least one member who cannot recommend enough and will introduce interested parties. **Accounting services:** - **Donald Reid Group** — Several members use this firm. - **Specialist F&B/hospitality accountants** — At least one member uses a newer accountancy firm that specialises in hospitality, food & beverage, and e-commerce, described as well-priced after trying several solutions. **Employment law:** - Members have access to personal introductions to employment lawyers; if you need specific employment law support, ask in the group for a direct introduction. The consensus is to ask for private introductions rather than cold-contact these firms, as several members have referral relationships and may offer deals. Seed Legals appears most frequently recommended across multiple use cases.

#erp#inventory-management#software#xero-integration

What ERP or inventory management software do small drinks producers recommend, and how well do they integrate with Xero?

Members consistently recommend **Unleashed** as a powerful, scalable solution for inventory, production, costing and SKU-level tracking—but emphasize it requires significant setup and ongoing commitment. It syncs with Xero, Shopify, Vend, Zettle, and Wise, and produces strong reports. However, implementation typically takes 6–9 months and benefits from specialist support; members used **Outserve** (philip.oakley@outserveweb.co.uk) for implementation, though noted the cost is high. Success depends on dedicated team buy-in or a single person owning the system day-to-day. For smaller teams without heavy resources, members highlighted lighter alternatives: - **Breww** — £90/month all-in with unlimited users, focused on breweries but adaptable to other drinks production; integrates easily with Xero; includes batch/date tracking, warehouse floor app, built-in CRM and tank cleaning scheduler; requires no full-time operator. - **BrewMan** — £50 per user per month, noted for costing and production focus. - **Workhorse** — Simpler alternative recommended by members using third-party production models; handles POs, stock, production and tracking but less suitable for complex direct/bonded/duty-paid sales scenarios. - **Excel spreadsheets** — Several members running effective operations on well-built spreadsheets with bookkeeper support; members offered to share templates. **Caveats:** Unleashed can cause integration issues with Xero (phantom duty calculations reported); it's a blank canvas requiring API configuration and carries risk of problems if not carefully set up. Members cautioned that Zoho is primarily CRM, not true ERP. The choice depends on operational complexity—Unleashed scales to handle multiple SKUs, hundreds of ingredients and multiple warehouses, but simpler systems suit leaner operations.

#recruitment#sales hiring#on-trade#off-trade

What recruitment channels and specialists do members use for on-trade and off-trade sales roles, and what's experience with commission-only hiring?

Members use a mix of general job boards and specialist recruiters for drinks-industry sales roles. **Recruitment channels:** - **LinkedIn** — highly recommended for roles with defined job titles where prior experience matters; members describe it as "amazing" for this type of hiring - **Indeed** — worthwhile because "almost everyone looks on it" - **Specialist recruiters** — e.g. **Lime Recruiting**, though noted as "way more expensive" than general platforms **Recruitment specialists:** - **New Chapter Consulting** — members have used them and recommend them, saying they "have a good network of people" - **Young Foodies** — one member is currently working with them but reports it's "not proving to be that productive" **Commission-only on-trade hiring:** One member confirmed they have experience hiring commission-only on-trade sales people, but the discussion excerpts do not contain details of their approach, challenges, or recommendations. **Caveats:** The discussion shows members actively recruiting for account manager and on-trade sales roles, but most specifics are light. The commission-only experience was affirmed but not elaborated.

#project management#tools#asana#monday.com

What project management tools do drinks industry teams recommend for managing tasks and projects?

Members use a range of project management platforms depending on team size and complexity. **Monday.com** is frequently recommended and praised for effectiveness. **Trello** is noted as a good, straightforward option. **Asana** is mentioned as popular among members who've used multiple platforms. **Notion** is used by at least one member for broader workspace management. **Basecamp** is highlighted as "great" by another user, offering an integrated alternative. A free Gantt chart tool was also mentioned, though not specified by name. The most important factor members emphasised is **adoption and buy-in**: whoever sets up the system needs to be committed to it, and the whole team needs to actually use it consistently. One member cautioned that sometimes the overhead of setting up tasks in a system can exceed the time saved, especially for simple, quick tasks — so consider your actual workflow before over-engineering a setup. The key is choosing something your team will actually stick with rather than the most feature-rich option.

#recruitment#hospitality#on-trade#salaries

What recruitment agencies and strategies do Kindred members recommend for hiring drinks industry roles, and what are typical salary expectations?

## Recruitment Agencies & Contacts Members recommend several agencies with drinks industry experience: - **Marvel** — Jake Merrick-Wren recommended for recruitment - **Young Foodies** — praised for mid-level recruitment services - **CORE** — recommended for on-trade recruitment - **New Chapter** — Emma Forster (emma.forster@newchapter.co.uk) highly rated for on-trade hospitality experience - **Seven** — Lucy McMullan recommended - **The Advocate Group** — Kayleigh works with them ## Sales & Event Staff For on-trade sales roles at mid-level, members suggest: - **Fusion** and **VinoKelly** — both supply on-trade sales staff; contact Gareth or Elizabeth on +447789915197 (VinoKelly) - **Poaching ex wine or spirits sales people** — suggested as a direct sourcing strategy - For event-based sales staff (e.g., promotional events), members noted they have direct connections and recommended reaching out to the community via DM ## Salary Expectations For an operations manager with drinks industry experience (managing whisky cask, bottling planning, inventory), members suggested **£60k as a starting point**, though this varies significantly by location and operation size. Members recommended checking job listing sites like Grocer for current market rates specific to your region. ## Caveat Members noted that recruitment agencies in the drinks industry are "costly and in need of serious disruption," so budget accordingly.

#kickstarter scheme#recruitment#regional hiring#people

How effective is the UK Kickstarter recruitment scheme for finding candidates outside London?

Members' experience with the Kickstarter scheme has been mixed, with significant geographic limitations. The scheme works best when you bypass the lead provider and engage directly with your local job centre, but the default setup often fails in regional areas. **Key findings:** - **Gradfuel** (a Kickstarter administrator) has been unreliable for regional recruitment—members report they signed up for multiple positions, completed DWP paperwork, but admitted all their candidate sourcing happens in London. One Manchester-based business found Gradfuel unable to deliver any suitable candidates despite setup promises. - **Job centre engagement varies significantly by location.** Members had better results going directly to their local job centre for candidate referrals rather than relying on the intermediary. One member in Chelmsford reported good outcomes when the local job centre and their Kickstarter manager worked well together; another found direct applications through their local job centre yielded 3–5 good candidates after struggling with assessment day referrals. - **The scheme's transparency problem:** The way Kickstarter roles are advertised is "ludicrously opaque." One member in London had hundreds of applicants on LinkedIn but none found the Kickstarter listing because it required being on Universal Credit and matched by a specific job centre—which was closed due to COVID, blocking walk-in registrations. - **Incentive misalignment:** Members suspect providers are paid a flat fee per hire regardless of fit, so they sign up as many businesses as possible without capacity to deliver candidates. - **Quality concerns:** Even successful placements saw struggles. One member noted receiving "terrible candidates" in assessment days, and another who took on a young person "frankly it's been a struggle" despite wanting to help. One reported receiving exclusively male applicants, suggesting potential job centre or matching issues. **Bottom line:** The scheme can work if your local job centre is engaged and you manage expectations, but don't rely on intermediaries like Gradfuel outside London. Go direct to your local job centre and set realistic timelines (one member waited nearly 4 months). Members suggested collective action to hold intermediaries accountable if problems are widespread.

#recruitment#talent-sourcing#marketing-operations#hiring

Where should drinks founders source talent for brand development, marketing, and operations roles?

Recruitment is competitive in the drinks sector, but several channels have proven effective. **LinkedIn Recruiter** has been the most successful for members—it allows filtering by job title and industry (e.g. "digital marketing executive" in "food and beverages"), then reaching out via DM to relevant candidates. The volume of generic applicants via standard LinkedIn job posts is high but mostly irrelevant. **The Copy Club** has been recommended specifically for marketing and operations roles. They pre-screen applicants before forwarding them to you, which eliminates unsuitable candidates. Members can request a contact number internally. **University careers teams** — if you have connections at universities around the country, careers teams can be a source of graduate talent; members with academic links are happy to facilitate introductions via DM. **Professional networks** have yielded the best candidates for members filling recent roles, suggesting that word-of-mouth and industry connections outperform formal recruitment channels. Members note that the recruitment market has been tough, with many generic job-board candidates being unsuitable. The most successful approach requires active prospecting rather than passive job posting.

#custom-merchandise#suppliers#activations#branded-goods

Where can I source custom paper cups and branded merchandise for brand activations and events?

Members recommend a handful of proven suppliers for custom cups and merchandise. For **cups direct** — competitive pricing if you meet minimum order quantities. For sustainability-focused options, **Go For Green** (goforgreenuk.com) is recommended, with members noting Wayne at GFG as a good contact. For branded merchandise beyond cups, **Bags of Ethics** was used successfully for tote bags, and **Awesome Merch** is also recommended for branded items. One member mentioned **TPI** as an option for cups. Members suggest reaching out directly to these suppliers to discuss your MOQs and design requirements, and note that personal introductions (like Wayne at GFG) can help smooth the process.

#recruitment#drinks-industry#talent#brand-side

What recruitment agencies or recruiters specialise in the drinks industry and have experience on both brand and buyer sides?

Members recommend two recruiters with strong drinks-industry experience: - **Simon Slevin** — described as a good recruiter within drinks with relevant experience. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonslevin/?originalSubdomain=uk Members praised him as "really nice guy too." - **Jake Merrick (Marvel Recruitment)** — recommended as "a great guy." He has direct drinks-sector experience, having worked for Martin Millers and then Indie Brands before moving into recruitment. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-merrick-wren-6b5071115 Members note Marvel is "doing well in the industry."

#venue-management#booking-systems#hospitality-software#cost-comparison

What are the best affordable venue booking systems for restaurants and bars?

Members highlighted several booking systems with different pricing models, ranging from per-cover charges to flat fees and commission-based options. **ResDiary** — A popular choice among members; now owned by The Access Group. **Design My Night (DMN)** — Charges a subscription plus per-seat fee for bookings coming through their platform. Easy website widget integration. Part of The Access Group. **Stampede** — Charges a single all-in fee, roughly equivalent to DMN pricing but without the per-cover charge on top, making it simpler for budgeting. **Fare Harbour** — Described as offering an "incredible deal" with no upfront charges, only a small percentage taken from each booking—worth exploring for cost-conscious venues. **OpenTable** — Generally considered "pretty good" and generates genuine bookings via the OpenTable website; easy widget for your own site. However, it's expensive at £300/month plus per-cover charges on bookings, making it one of the pricier options. **Caveats:** Members noted that OpenTable's dual pricing (monthly fee + per-booking charge) adds up quickly. The landscape has consolidated recently—The Access Group now owns both ResDiary and DMN, so it's worth checking if they're still priced/featured differently.

#crm#invoicing#sales-software#tools

What CRM and invoicing software tools do members recommend for drinks brands?

Members are using a mix of dedicated CRM and invoicing tools, with some looking to consolidate into a single platform with good dashboards and integration. **Active recommendations:** - **Tortuga** — mentioned as a good solution for those starting out; at least one member is actively using it and available to share details - **Bowimi** — recommended specifically for pure CRM functionality - **HubSpot** — currently in use by at least one member, though they are exploring alternatives that combine invoicing and sales tracking **Caveats:** Members noted there are "strong opinions" on some of these tools in the community, suggesting it's worth researching carefully or reaching out to users directly before committing. The ideal solution appears to be one platform that handles both invoicing and CRM with linked dashboards, though members may need to use two separate tools if a fully integrated solution isn't found.

#internal-comms#tools#software#team-collaboration

Should we use Slack or Microsoft Teams for internal team communication?

Members are split, but several have moved from Slack to Microsoft Teams and report it works well long-term, especially for cost savings and integration with other tools. **Slack** — praised for user experience and fun features (e.g. party parrots), but less ideal if your team uploads lots of pictures on the go. **Microsoft Teams** — initially unpopular with some, but members who've switched from Slack/Zoom/Dropbox report it's "a dream" once set up. Seamless integration with OneDrive and other Microsoft 365 apps (Excel, SharePoint, etc.). Members note it will "save us some quids ultimately" compared to juggling separate tools. Good pairing with Google Drive if you're already using Google Workspace. **Google Chat** — one member's current platform, but described as "utter s***" and generally not recommended by the group. **Avoid:** Using WhatsApp for internal team communication—members flagged this as "a nightmare" for proper business comms, even if sales teams prefer it. The consensus leans toward Teams for drinks businesses because of cost consolidation and strong integration with productivity suites, especially if you're already paying for Microsoft 365.

#bottle-supply#european-formats#suppliers#imports

Which UK bottle suppliers can supply imported European bottle formats, and what are the alternatives if stock isn't available?

Members looking for European bottle formats (particularly 750ml Dorica) report that UK bottle suppliers often struggle with stock for non-standard formats. Where to look: - **Allied** — recommended by multiple members who've switched to them for bottle supply - **Encirc** — suggested as an alternative when standard suppliers are out of stock - **Erben** — mentioned as another option to try - **Bruni** — Brendan at Bruni reportedly has access to a range of bottles, though availability of specific formats like 750ml Dorica bottles may vary If UK suppliers can't meet your needs, members report importing directly from Europe. For logistics, **DSV** was used for a pallet to Germany at around £300, and members importing from Germany to the UK report costs of approximately £640–£740 per pallet (including admin fees). Lead times and availability remain challenging; one member needed 5 pallets weekly and was still sourcing alternatives.

#photography#product-shoots#lifestyle-content#suppliers

Who are recommended photographers for long-term product and lifestyle photography projects?

Members recommend the following photographers who have been used successfully for spirits and drinks product/lifestyle work: - **Ersah Hancer** — recommended by multiple members for product and lifestyle photography. Contact: info@limedigitalmarketing.co.uk. Instagram: @ersahhancer. Described as "great" by those who've worked with him. - **Joe** — mentioned as "great" with a background as an ex-bartender, suggesting familiarity with the drinks industry (requires direct introduction via community). - **Chris** — recommended, requires introduction via community members. Members suggest reaching out directly to community contacts for introductions and portfolio reviews before committing to long-term arrangements.

#equipment#suppliers#production#glassware

What are the best UK suppliers for enolmatic single-head fillers and bar-friendly glassware with quick delivery?

**Enolmatic single-head fillers:** Members recommend several suppliers for equipment and pricing: - **Derek** (https://www.winegrowers.info/wine-equip/enolmatic/info.htm) — used historically by members - **ACO** — frequently used by members for this equipment - **Vigo** — available but noted as expensive by some - **Liquid Solutions** (callum.mitchell@liquidsolutions.co.uk) — used by members - **Polsinelli** (https://www.polsinelli.it/en/enolmatic-filling-machine-P20.htm) — Italian supplier, but import times currently problematic **Bar-friendly glassware with quick delivery:** - **The Lucky Drinker** (https://theluckydrinker.com/) — recommended for bar-friendly glassware with faster turnaround - **GTR** — member connection available if needed - **Aval Dor** — members in the group work with them and can offer direct support - **8Track** — member connection available (Jeremy Mitchell from Upbeat) **Caveats:** Import times from European suppliers like Polsinelli are currently slow. Direct member introductions to suppliers like Aval Dor and 8Track are available within the community if needed.

#bonded-warehouse#logistics#pricing#suppliers

What are the current bonded warehouse pricing trends and service issues in the UK, and which alternatives are members using?

Members are reporting significant price increases across UK bonded warehouses coupled with stretched service levels. **LCB** has raised landing charges from 50p to 75p per case and storage from 6p to 7.5p per week; they're also experiencing capacity constraints with 3-day landing times and 7-day rework turnarounds, plus strict policies on late deliveries. Current pricing varies slightly by operator—**Horseguards Gin** reports goods-in at 67p and storage at 7.25p per case of 6. Members note the sector is experiencing high demand across the board, driving prices up while service levels decline. Alternatives members are exploring: - **FuturePro Logistics** — used successfully at Seedlip and still in use there; contact Mark@futureprologistics.com, +44 7766 114 897 - **EHD** — praised as not expensive, quick for landing, and offering decent delivery rates Members' general sense is that capacity is tight across all warehousing operators. Those considering alternatives should factor in both pricing and service responsiveness when evaluating providers.

#stock-sourcing#packaging#suppliers#inventory

Where can UK drinks producers source packaging stock like bottles, corks, and cans from other producers or suppliers?

Members have identified several specific sources for secondary packaging stock, both from industry liquidations and specialist suppliers: **Stock clearance opportunities:** - **Brittains closure stock** — One member had 100,000 corks available (40mm x 12mm, dark wood, natural cork shank 18.5mm, made for herbalist bottles) sourced from Brittains' closure - **Brew and Bottle liquidation** — 100k x 150ml cans available from this company going into liquidation - **Peer-to-peer sourcing** — Members regularly post urgent needs (e.g., 35cl personalised bottles for Christmas orders, 20ml/25ml bottles, white flint Kelfa Apotheker or Herbalist 70cl bottles) in the group; sometimes other members have surplus stock to offload **Specialist packaging suppliers:** - **Propak** — Recommended for branded items like jiggers - **Xilong** (Far East option; +86 182 5869 2627, http://www.xilong-glass.com) — Used occasionally for minis and first runs of new SKUs due to cheap set-up costs. However, members warned that quality control is poor (bottle variance/tolerance greater than European suppliers), bottles often arrive dirty, fill levels vary, payment is upfront (poor cash flow vs. UK terms), and shipping delays eliminate cost savings unless budget allows air freight. Rachel is the contact. Members noted they've since moved all formats back to UK production. **Service providers offering contract solutions:** - **Gorilla Spirits** (near Basingstoke; https://gorillaspirits.co.uk/contract-distilling-bottling/) — Offers production and contract bottling capacity Members emphasise: always check the Kindred group first for liquidation stock and peer offers before placing orders elsewhere. Far East sourcing has hidden costs and cash-flow penalties that often outweigh initial price savings.

#bottle-decoration#glass-spraying#suppliers#production

What UK bottle spraying and glass decoration services are available for small production runs?

For runs over 1,000 bottles, several UK specialist decorators are regularly used by members. Members recommend contacting suppliers directly as pricing and suitability vary significantly based on print complexity, run size, and whether glass is still at the manufacturer. **Recommended suppliers:** - **Dekorprint** (Birmingham) — regularly used for runs >1k; competitive pricing for tinting work, particularly cost-effective through contact Hardeep - **Nolan at Verallia** — used by members for tinting services - **Colorlites** / **Colourite** — used by members depending on project requirements - **Decor** — another option used by members for varying project types - **Glass manufacturer in-house facilities** — worth checking if your glass supplier offers spraying services, as this can avoid transport and wastage costs if decoration happens before the glass leaves the factory **Key considerations members flagged:** - Transport and wastage costs of external decorators can add up; check if your glass manufacturer can spray before delivery - Pricing varies by print complexity and run size, so get quotes from multiple suppliers - For >1k runs of simple tinting, external decorators typically represent the standard route

#warehousing#logistics#suppliers#uk-providers

Which UK warehousing and logistics providers do drinks founders recommend?

Members shared a few tested alternatives to major providers. There was strong advice against LCB, with one member emphatically recommending against them. Recommended providers: - **Macintyre Scott (MSX)** — based in Totton; members report they looked after their operation well - **Belvedere Warehousing** — mentioned as an alternative option - **EHD** — described as "great" Members noted that while these providers work, costs can be significant once volumes scale up. One member using a recommended provider for wine storage flagged that pricing isn't competitive at higher volumes, so it's worth negotiating terms based on your anticipated throughput.

#mentoring#business-advisory#community-support#founder-development

What mentoring and business advisory schemes are available for drinks industry founders?

Several formal mentoring programmes exist within the UK drinks industry, though many are focused on specific demographics. **Drinkclusive** (launched by Aidy Smith) focuses on diversity in the industry. **The OurWhisky Foundation** operates a mentoring programme specifically for whisky. **WonderWorks** runs WonderWomen, aimed at women in drinks. **The Drinks Trust** also has a mentor programme. Note that The Drinks Community previously offered mentoring but has recently shut down. For those outside these categories, members highlight two alternative approaches: - **All Together** (alltogether.company/advisors/) — a platform not drinks-specific but with many advisors who have founded and run drinks companies, making it relevant for industry experience - **Direct outreach** — Members suggest simply identifying your ideal mentor and asking directly; the worst outcome is a "no," and establishing clear time commitments and KPIs helps structure the relationship Members also note that informal mentoring within the Kindred Collective itself is available — experienced founders are willing to help other brands scale, so internal networking and direct asks are viable routes.

#cask-sourcing#equipment-suppliers#drinks-fridges#cost-planning

Where can members source small casks for spirits aging and branded drinks fridges, and what are typical costs?

**Small casks for spirits aging:** Members have sourced casks through peer-to-peer connections within the community. Specific options shared include: - **225 litre port barrels** — used successfully by members for gin resting; available through community networks - **Ex-Bordeaux and English wine barrels** (e.g. Cabernet, Pinot Noir) — members have offered these through the group The best approach appears to be posting your requirements in the community and leveraging direct connections; previous use is acceptable. **Branded drinks fridges:** - **Chinese suppliers** — identified as the most cost-effective source, with units starting at approximately **£169 per small unit** - **Shipping costs** — currently high from China; members flagged exchange rate volatility (GBP:USD) as an additional cost factor to budget for **Related supplier note:** - **Bottled and Canned** — praised as excellent for previous G&T canning projects using tonic syrup and gin IBCs, though members are now exploring larger integrated solutions (flavour house/tonic house/canner combinations) **Caveat:** One member reported a pilot run delay with a previous supplier (money-back offer extended), so vet timelines carefully before committing.

#juice-sourcing#suppliers#bulk-ingredients

What are the best suppliers for bulk lime juice (100L+)?

Members recommend contacting fresh citrus juice suppliers directly for bulk orders. - **Juiced in Time** (Instagram: @juicedintimefm) — offers freshly squeezed lime juice - **+44 7766 279563** — a Chiswick-based operator who presses lemons and limes; can handle bulk volumes - **Fresh Citrus MCR** (freshcitrusmcr.co.uk) — described as "great" by members for citrus juice supply Members recommend reaching out via the contact details or social channels above to discuss your specific volume requirements (100L+). Direct contact allows for negotiation on pricing and delivery for bulk orders.

#tamper-proof seals#packaging#suppliers#heat-shrink caps

Where can we source tamper-proof seals and heat-shrink caps for spirits bottles?

Members recommend reaching out directly within the community for supplier contacts, as several people have established relationships with tamper-proof seal and heat-shrink cap providers. **Direct peer introductions** — Multiple members indicated they have good contacts for tamper-proof seals and heat-shrink cap styles. The recommended approach is to message these members directly for introductions. **Existing inventory** — Members occasionally have surplus glass, stoppers, and heat-shrink supplies available from previous large-volume purchases, which can be sourced at cost-plus pricing. These are typically held in warehouse stock (e.g. Midlands-based distribution) and sold by the pallet. Note: The discussion suggests **Bobbins and Berlin** was a previous supplier option, but members indicated this source no longer has adequate stock or suitable replacements, which is why alternative sourcing became necessary.

#closures#suppliers#sourcing#packaging

Where can wine bottle closures (shrink capsules and Vinolok) be sourced, particularly in the UK?

Members are actively seeking alternatives to traditional suppliers due to price pressures. **Bruni** has recently increased prices by 25%, prompting searches for other PVC/PET shrink capsule manufacturers. **Seven Tails** closures are sourced through **La Martiniques** in France, where they are assembled; this supplier offers competitive pricing on bulk orders due to aggregated buying across multiple brand labels. For **Vinolok** closures specifically, members have mentioned sourcing from **Berlin** (likely referring to a German supplier, though details are limited). **Prowein** (the trade show) has been referenced as a venue where members have made valuable supplier connections and visited facilities. For logistics support, **Hillebrand** (contact: diana.estelanecochea@hillebrandgori.com) has been used successfully for international shipments, including samples to Italy and shipments to Dubai, at approximately £100 for 2 × 70cl bottles from London. **UPS** is another option members have used for sample shipments. Members suggest coordinating shipment costs with peers attending Prowein to split shipping expenses.

#design#packaging#rebranding#suppliers

What design agencies and designers do members recommend for rebranding and packaging projects?

Members recommend several designers and agencies with direct experience in drinks rebranding and packaging: - **WeLaunch** (Stuart Lang) — recommended for rebrand and packaging work; members note they're also happy to provide introductions - **Aitch Creates** (harry@aitchcreates.com, https://aitchcreates.com/portfolio/) — designer recommended by members - **Buddy Creative** (mark@buddycreative.com, https://buddycreative.com) — noted as "worth a shout" - **Max Agace** (http://www.maxagace.com) — highly rated ("👌🏼") For relabelling services on existing stock (e.g. cans), members also mention **Codex Solutions** — described as "very flexible" for ad hoc duty-paid relabelling work, and **WeLaunch** can facilitate introductions to relabelling suppliers. No detailed pricing or lead-time information was shared in the discussion.

#recruitment#graduate-placements#supplier-experience#hiring

What are members' experiences with Gradfuel as a graduate recruitment placement service?

Members reported mixed and largely negative experiences with Gradfuel as a graduate recruitment provider. **Gradfuel** presented themselves as having national coverage but admitted they only had London-based resources, causing issues for companies outside the capital (e.g. Manchester-based hiring). Specific problems included: - **Limited candidate pool**: One member received only one applicant for a brand ambassador role after initial placement, forcing them to re-specify the position to accounts administrator instead. - **Poor transparency**: A candidate was placed through Gradfuel without disclosing they had previously been employed through the same scheme, leading to the placement being withdrawn. - **Credit loss**: Members reported unused placement credits effectively disappearing—one member asked if their third credit "disappeared into thin air" with no clear resolution. - **Incomplete placements**: One contact (Henrietta Tillbury) worked with a company but was unable to fill a third position after two initial placements succeeded. Members described the start as "really painful" and noted Gradfuel's national credentials pitch did not match their actual service capability. At least one member explored formal complaints about lost placements.

#marketing#freelance#social-media#recruitment

Where can I find a freelance social media or digital marketing manager?

Members have successfully used freelance social media managers to support their digital efforts. The specific recommendation from the community is: - **Lauren Halliday** (+44 7921 198789) — Highly praised by members as "amazing" and recommended without reservation for digital marketing and social media management work. Members also noted that **wearecreation.com** was mentioned as another potential resource in the discussion. No other detailed vendor reviews or pricing information was shared in the community discussion, so Lauren Halliday represents the directly-vetted recommendation from this group.

#crm#software#inventory-management#sales-platform

What CRM or sales platform integrates well with inventory management for small drinks businesses?

Members recommend a mix of approaches depending on whether inventory integration is critical. **Salesforce** integrates with both Unleashed and NetSuite, making it a strong choice if you need tight inventory links, though some found it not very user-friendly. **HubSpot** is praised by members as handling everything needed for small operations. **Bowimi** works as a pure sales CRM but doesn't integrate with inventory systems, so it's better if you're managing stock separately. One member cautioned that after two years on Salesforce with Unleashed integration, they switched to Bowimi because their team didn't engage well with Salesforce's interface—so ease of adoption matters as much as feature depth.

#bottle-suppliers#saverglass#samples#uk-contact

How do I get in touch with Saverglass or access their bottle samples?

Direct contact with Saverglass's UK representative is the quickest route. Members report that contacting via the website form can be slow, so reaching out directly is more reliable. **Direct contacts:** - **George Bell** — Saverglass UK rep. Email: gwp@saverglass.com, Phone: 07576670584 **Alternative suppliers holding Saverglass stock:** - **Croxsons** — holds most of the Saverglass range and can supply samples - **A E Chapman** — close relationship with Saverglass and can facilitate introductions **Tip:** If you've submitted a sample request via Saverglass's website without response, bypass the web form and contact George directly for faster turnaround.

#bottle suppliers#manufacturing#reliability#eu-uk

Which bottle manufacturers are most reliable for UK/EU delivery and quality?

Members report mixed experiences with major suppliers. Reliability and pricing vary significantly; some offer quick turnarounds and problem-solving, while others have added unexpected surcharges. - **Vetroelite and Rawlings** — praised for reliability with no surprises, though at a premium price point - **Estal** — reported as reliable and accommodating by some, with quick turnaround and ability to rescue orders after supplier failures; however, others have experienced random surcharges (members noted a 14.5% fuel surcharge added mid-order citing Ukraine-related costs) - **Berlin Packaging** — specifically cautioned against; members reported significant failures that required rescue operations from alternative suppliers Caveats: Expect price volatility and potential last-minute surcharges, especially tied to geopolitical events or fuel costs. Members recommend vetting suppliers carefully and building relationships with those willing to problem-solve when issues arise.

#sparkling wine#prosecco#ready-to-drink#bulk ingredients

What suppliers can provide bulk sparkling wine or prosecco for ready-to-drink production?

Members recommended several established UK suppliers for bulk sparkling wine and prosecco for RTD use: - **Della Vite** — mentioned as an available bulk wine supplier - **Chapel Down** — recommended as a local option; members can provide introductions - **Coates & Seeley** — recommended as a local UK supplier; members can facilitate introductions - **Oak and Still** — described as "a very good option" for bulk wine; contact luke@oakandstill.co.uk for enquiries For bulk white wine, the same suppliers are likely options. Members suggest reaching out directly with your requirements, and existing community members are willing to make introductions to streamline the process.

#branded equipment#suppliers#signage#promotional tools

What are the best suppliers for branded equipment like magnetic signage, printed boards, and promotional jigging tools?

Members have had mixed success finding high-quality branded equipment domestically and internationally. Here are the specific suppliers and approaches mentioned: **For printed boards and signage:** - **Pixartprinting** — recommended for custom aluminium printed boards, handles custom sizes and shapes - **Vistaprint** — suggested for smaller orders if you don't need large MOQs - **uk.staci.com** — offers sourcing to storage and fulfilment services for major players; MOQs unclear from discussion **For jigging tools and promotional equipment:** - **Alibaba suppliers** — one member sourced via Alibaba and reported significantly better quality at roughly 1/3 of UK pricing, though they emphasised they had only received samples at that point and couldn't yet confirm service levels or full delivery quality **Key caveats:** Members noted particular difficulty finding high-quality branded equipment at reasonable prices through UK suppliers alone, which is why some are exploring international options. If using overseas suppliers, allow time for sample approval before committing to larger orders, as service levels and final quality can vary. No detailed lead time data was provided in the discussion, so it's worth requesting this directly from suppliers when quoting.