Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Where can I find a cream liqueur producer or co-packer?
Several cream liqueur producers and co-packers are active in the UK and Ireland drinks scene. Members recommend: - **Coole Swan** — established Irish cream liqueur brand, well-regarded within the community - **Hensol** — produces vegan cream liqueur using coconut milk base - **Licor43** — supplies Horchata, a vegan cream liqueur made from tiger nut (Spain's no. 1 liqueur brand) - **Creamy Creation** — recommended as a potential supplier - **Niche Drinks** (Northern Ireland) — co-packer with proven track record; members have worked with them successfully - **West Cork distillery** — produces cream liqueurs; available for direct conversation about specific needs - **Custom producer** — One member's company produces cream liqueurs at scale, recently won a silver award for Tequila Strawberry Cream, and manufactures private-label volumes for major retailers. They are open to helping and noted they're shortly expanding dedicated cream production lines. **Important caveat:** Members emphasised that when selecting a producer, **verify they can actually produce the liquid to your specification** — don't assume capability without confirmation. Plant-based/vegan formulations are available if needed.
Which co-packers and bottlers can handle small-batch production, RTD bottling, and kegging services?
Members recommend several co-packers and bottlers for smaller production runs and specialist services. Here are the specific contacts and options shared: **Blending & Kegging** - **1.8** — Haydon and Jono reportedly handle kegging cocktails and support smaller batch production (though availability was queried, suggesting you should confirm current capacity). **Small-Batch Bottling (100–2000L)** - **Beamspack** — Members have used them and are happy to make introductions. - **Giraffe Distillers** — Can provide quotes; noted as having a dedicated miniature line (contact: Andy). - One member offered to support 2000L runs; DM for details. **Miniature Bottling** - **Beamspack** — Successfully handled miniature packing at scale (8,000 and 40,000 units mentioned). - **Giraffe Distillers** — Has a dedicated miniature line and can quote. **RTD (Bottles & Cans), In-Bond** The community discussion flagged this as a common need, but no specific suppliers were named in the excerpts—members asked for recommendations but the thread didn't resolve with named contacts. One member offered to DM details directly. **How to Connect** Several members offered to make direct introductions or provide contact details via DM. The community norm is to reach out to the thread or ask for an intro if a supplier is mentioned.
Which co-packers can handle canning runs of 10,000+ litres with pasteurising capability?
Members recommend several co-packers with canning capability in the UK, though pasteurising availability varies: - **Bottled & Canned** — confirmed to offer pasteurising and canning services; members report positive experience and are running trial canning runs with them. - **Alcohol Solutions (Manchester)** — has a new canning line but does **not** have pasteurising capability in-house, so verify their full service offering before approaching. - **Spiritbridge** — mentioned as a potential option; members suggest reaching out directly for capability discussion. - **Clearly Drinks (Sunderland)** — suggested as a co-packer worth contacting. - **HCC (Hereford)** — mentioned as another option to explore. - **Envirocan** — listed as an alternative co-packer option. **Caveat:** If pasteurising is essential to your specification, confirm this explicitly with each co-packer before committing—Alcohol Solutions lacks this capability, so don't assume all canning lines include it.
Where can members find co-packing services for liquid bagging, bottling with ROPP closures, pasteurisation, and white-label cocktail production?
Members have recommended several co-packers with different capabilities: **Liquid bagging and boxing:** - **RED Distillery** — Neil can handle liquid bagging and boxing services - **Blackbridge** — Ash offers bagging and boxing; members suggest requesting an introduction **Bonded bottling with ROPP closures, pasteurisation, and small MOQs (1000L+):** - **Ashley Blackbridge** — Recommended as excellent for bonded bottling work - **Rhys Mallows** — Suggested as a contact for this specification - **Giraffe Distillers** — Adam confirmed they can handle custom bottling requirements; will provide credentials, capacity, and MOQ details on request **White-label bottled cocktails for corporate customers:** - **World of Zing** — Pritesh handles significant white-label cocktail bottling work - **Giraffe Distillers** — Can produce bottled cocktails to specification - **Netherlands-based option** — One member mentioned having a contact for a co-packer in the Netherlands if UK capacity is unavailable **How to proceed:** Contact members directly via WhatsApp for introductions, or request decks with credentials, capacity, and MOQ information. Lead times should be discussed for spring/summer delivery needs.
Who offers co-packing services for pouch formats, and what are the typical MOQs and constraints?
Members have identified limited options for low-volume pouch co-packing. **Young Spirits** is the primary recommendation—one member went through multiple options and selected them; contact via DM for details on their other explored alternatives. **ICB Distillers** can handle bag-in-box and kegs but their MOQs are described as "fairly chunky" and they're uncertain about pouches. Members note that pouch co-packing at low volumes is challenging and requires direct outreach to suppliers for specifics on pouch size, closure type, and your volume requirements. One member also flagged that flexihex flap closures can occasionally be inconsistent depending on supplier (since the design was sold, quality varies), and suggests using tape as backup security when sealing.
Who owns the intellectual property rights to spirit recipes developed through co-packing or joint venture arrangements?
Recipe IP ownership in spirit production depends on who develops the recipe and is negotiated on a case-by-case basis. **Key ownership scenarios:** - **Distillery or consultant develops the recipe** — the distillery or consultant retains IP ownership - **Brand pays for recipe development** — the brand can own the recipe outright and take it to any distillery - **Distillery develops for you with purchase option** — some distilleries will release recipe IP to the brand after a minimum order commitment (members cited examples of 25,000 bottles as a typical threshold) **Important note:** Terms are entirely negotiable and should be clarified upfront in any co-packing or joint venture agreement. Members emphasised this is handled "on a case by case basis", so there are no fixed industry standards — secure your preferred arrangement in writing before production begins.
Should a co-packer charge a brand for lost production line time when the brand's materials arrive late?
This is a contentious issue with legitimate arguments on both sides. The community consensus leans toward acknowledging the co-packer's costs—a strong majority (12 out of 14 responses) agreed the charge is justified in principle, recognizing that manufacturers do have fixed production-line costs to cover. **Key considerations from the community:** - **The brand's responsibility matters**: If the brand is ordering materials and missing deadlines due to its own disorganisation, members generally felt the charge was fair. The co-packer has production slots booked and incurs costs if the line sits idle. - **Supplier fault changes the equation**: If the delay is caused by the material supplier (not the brand's ordering), the situation is murkier. Members flagged this as "a tough one"—the brand shouldn't necessarily bear the cost of a third-party supplier's failure. - **Pattern vs. one-off**: A single late delivery is different from a pattern of chronic late arrivals. Members noted that repeated disorganisation justifies charges more readily. - **Cash-flow reality**: One member noted an important caveat: while they understand the co-packer's position, early-stage brands may be "so strapped for cash" that they'd struggle to pay a bill, even if they accept it's fair. This could become a relationship problem and potentially trigger a search for a new manufacturing partner. **Bottom line**: Members recommend treating this as a conversation item in the contract or SLA—clarify who owns material ordering, what constitutes acceptable lead times, and under what conditions line charges apply. Prevention (better planning) is cheaper than the argument.
How do you find and vet UK bottling and co-packing facilities for small batch production?
Finding a UK co-packer typically starts with personal introductions within the Kindred network. Members recommend reaching out directly to known facilities or asking for introductions via the group. Key suppliers and contacts mentioned: - **Columbo Group** — members have contacts here and can facilitate introductions - Direct outreach to individual members who manage co-packing relationships What you'll need ready: - **Volume requirements** — co-packers ask about expected batch sizes upfront - **Bottle format/size** — specify your exact packaging needs (e.g. wine spritz in specific bottle size) Approach: Members suggest emailing contacts directly or asking the group for an introduction. Several members indicated they have "a few options available depending on requirements," suggesting capacity varies by format and volume. Personal networks and word-of-mouth vetting appear to be the primary route—members will only recommend facilities they've worked with or trust.
Which contract bottlers can handle miniature (5cl) bottle filling at volume?
Members report that miniature filling capacity exists but options are limited and pricing is tight. **Beams** has been used successfully by members for runs of 30k+ units and is available for introductions, though members note that finding more competitive pricing than Beams offers is challenging. **Contract Bottlers Glasgow** was mentioned as having a spare line available. For volumes around 100k per quarter, members recommend getting in touch with existing contacts and asking for introductions rather than cold-calling — personal referrals seem to unlock both availability and potentially better terms.
Which co-packers can handle small-volume canning runs with a 1000-litre minimum order in 250ml cans?
Several co-packers in the UK specialise in small-run canning at or near the 1000-litre MOQ level: - **Cannify** (London Bridge) — mentioned as capable of small volume runs. Website: https://canifycanning.com - **Drinks Chef** — Joe offers small-run canning. Contact: Joe@drinkschef.com - **Bottled and Canned** — explicitly state 1000L as their minimum volume run. Members report positive experience working with them on multiple runs. Contact via DM for details. Members recommend reaching out directly to confirm current MOQ and lead times, as these can vary.
Who can handle European production of amaro-style botanical liquids, including extraction, blending, filtering and filling?
For amaro-style botanical production in Europe, members recommend starting with UK co-packers who can handle the full process (botanical extraction, blending, filtering, filling) and then manage logistics to your destination. **UK co-packers mentioned:** - **Asterley Bros** — confirmed they handle this type of production regularly; happy to discuss bespoke amaro-style runs - **Vault** — noted as a strong option for this type of work - **Silent Pool** — recommended as another capable producer **Process notes:** Members noted that the typical route involves a distillery/producer handling the botanical extraction and blending stages, with filtering and filling either in-house or at the co-packer. Product can then be shipped to final destination (e.g. Poland) from the UK producer, simplifying logistics. **Caveat:** Members flagged that capacity constraints are common, so availability may vary. Direct contact with these producers is essential to confirm they can accommodate your timeline and volume (the example discussed was 5,000L).
How can we find available canning capacity when major co-packers are fully booked?
When conventional canners are at capacity, members recommend exploring alternative co-packing options. The community has identified the following: - **Drinks Chef** — recommended as a contact; email Joe at Joe@drinkschef.com to inquire about availability. - **EnviroCan** — suggested as an option; uses velcorin dosing instead of traditional pasteurisation, which may offer different scheduling flexibility. Members advised clarifying your production volumes upfront when approaching canners, as this will determine feasibility and lead times. Note that major operators like Bottled and Canned can be booked 4–6 months ahead, so contacting alternative providers early is essential for summer production windows.
What should founders expect regarding production delays and communication when working with co-packers, and how common are these issues?
Production delays and poor communication are unfortunately common in the co-packing industry, though the severity varies significantly by manufacturer. **What members experienced:** - **Brew+Bottle (now Renegade Drinks)** — Multiple delays with less than 24 hours notice during a factory move; described as very poor communication for a pilot run that was originally scheduled for June 18th but delayed three times over three months - **WeCan** — Reported as "a nightmare" for small runs (around 10k cans); cited for quality issues, planning failures, crazy delays, and terrible communication **Industry context:** - Delays and communication quality vary significantly depending on the format, complexity, and which manufacturer you use - Legitimate manufacturing delays (equipment breakdown, boiler failure) do happen and are unavoidable, but poor production planning is not the same as true manufacturing emergencies - Early-stage brands often have limited choice and may need to work with less reliable manufacturers initially, despite the frustration - Some members questioned how these companies remain in business given their service levels **Caveat:** The threshold for what constitutes acceptable communication and delay timescales appears to be a friction point across the industry. If you're considering a co-packer, asking for references and checking the Food Hub forum on Facebook may surface additional feedback.
Which canning co-packers can handle small to medium production runs, and what are their minimum order quantities?
The community has experience with a small number of canning co-packers for sub-50k unit runs. **Bottled and Canned** (Devon) is the most frequently mentioned option and comes recommended by several members, though quality consistency has been an issue for some—specifically carbonation levels and leaking cans. Members note the company "seems to be better than most" despite these occasional problems. For very small runs (100–125ml cans across multiple SKUs), members have indicated that custom solutions exist but require direct contact with producers who can assess timing and capacity. One member was in the process of testing a new canning partner in Glasgow for sub-50k unit runs and indicated they would report back. **Caveats:** - Quality issues are not uncommon; several members reported leaking cans and inconsistent carbonation, even with recommended suppliers. - Minimum run sizes and pricing were not explicitly detailed in community discussions—contact required for specifics. - Availability and lead times vary; timing of your run matters.
Where can founders source co-packers for pre-batched cocktail production?
Several members in the community offer contract manufacturing services for pre-batched cocktails in bottles: - **Bone Idyll** — Contact Sam@boneidyll.co.uk for co-packing inquiry - **Mothership Scotland** — The team behind Bramble offer pre-batched cocktail production; visit mothershipscotland.com for details - **Custom Spirit** — Contact Callum@customspirit.co for co-packing services Members recommend reaching out directly to these suppliers to discuss your specific requirements and production volumes.
Where can we find co-packers or fill-line suppliers for small-volume sugar syrup filling?
Members seeking co-packers for 20,000-unit runs of 4–5cl sugar syrups have had success with a small group of named suppliers. **Bristol Syrup** and **William Fox** came up as established options. **RED Distillery** also indicated willingness to handle this type of work (contact via DM for specifics). One member flagged that suitable suppliers may be Europe-based rather than exclusively UK-located. The community appears to have a handful of proven options, but volumes in the 20,000-unit range sit at a threshold where availability and lead times vary—direct outreach to each supplier is recommended to confirm current capacity.
What legal support do members recommend for reviewing and negotiating co-packing contracts?
Members recommend using specialist lawyers experienced with drinks-industry contracts. The go-to recommendation is **Justin Ellis at ilaw.co.uk** — described as "very good egg" by a member actively using them for co-packing agreement review. Members are happy to make introductions to their contacts if needed. No pricing or lead-time specifics were discussed in the excerpts.
What should you look for when finding a co-packer or canner, and which suppliers do members recommend?
When sourcing a co-packer or canner, define your specific technical requirements upfront—minimum order quantities, carbonation/nitrogen needs, pasteurisation, blending/filtering capabilities, and labelling preferences—then reach out to vetted suppliers in the community. Members recommend: - **Bottled & Canned** (shaun@bottledandcanned.co.uk) — praised for being great to work with and capable of handling non-carbonated products with nitrogen dosing, pasteurisation, mixing/blending, filtering, and hibiscus-compatible work - **Drayhorse Canning** — can handle approximately 14mm cans annually with competitive pricing; contact nate@drifterspirits.com to set up an introductory call with their team Key considerations members highlighted: clarify your MOQ (one member sought 1,000-litre minimums), confirm pasteurisation capability, ensure they can handle specialty ingredients like hibiscus, and verify label-over-can options if needed. Members suggested reaching out directly to suppliers with a detailed technical spec sheet rather than searching broadly, as capabilities vary significantly.
Who can provide co-packing services for carbonation and filling into small format bottles and cans?
Members seeking co-packing for carbonation and filling have limited but confirmed options. - **Somerset Cider Solutions** — recommended for carbonation and filling services into glass bottles The community discussion also shows demand for fillers handling small format cans (150ml, 200ml, 250ml sizes), but no specific supplier recommendations were provided in the excerpts for can-filling services. Caveats: The discussion suggests co-packing capacity in the UK for small formats may be tight. Members are actively searching for additional providers, indicating supply constraints in this space.
Where can we find 330ml can filling services?
Members needing urgent canning services have recommended the following contacts: - **joe@drinkschef.com** — recommended for 330ml can filling - **Simon Attfield, Attfield Design** (https://www.attfield-design.com/) — described as very good and very cost effective; note that contact was in the US until Friday (timing dependent on when this was written) If you need to contact these services, it's worth mentioning any urgent timelines upfront, as filling capacity can be tight at short notice.
What are the options for canning small volumes (under 10k cans) of ready-to-drink products?
Members have identified several co-packers willing to work on low MOQs for canning RTD products. The key constraint is that most require finished product (post-carbonation) rather than offering blending services. - **Point Cocktails** — contact Hayden; members report willingness to work on low-volume projects - **Can It (Bolton)** — successfully worked with members on 4,000 cans per SKU; offers fast turnaround (approximately 2 weeks) but requires finished product delivered in IBC format rather than blending in-house; no carbonation capability, so carbonation must be completed before delivery - **Bottled & Canned** — mentioned as a potential option for low-MOQ canning - **MC/Bibendum** — reported to be "great" for small runs, though no specific MOQ details were shared **Key limitation:** Most canners on low MOQs do not offer product blending. You'll need to deliver finished, carbonated product in IBC containers, which they then fill into cans. This means you must handle carbonation separately before sending to the canner. Plan accordingly for your production timeline.