Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What should we expect when pitching products to major wholesale distributors, and what strategies work best for getting listings?
Getting wholesale distributor listings requires meeting high volume forecasts and persistence through a lengthy approval process. **Key requirements and expectations:** - Major national operators now demand immediate volume commitment — distributors view stock as cash and are focused on range rationalisation post-COVID - Expect minimum forecast requirements of 3–5 cases per week per SKU or per site, even for smaller initial listings; some high-profile operators have regional autonomy and still push back on these minimums - **Specialty** is known for requesting particularly high forecasts compared to other wholesalers - The approval process is lengthy — members report 2+ weeks of back-and-forth negotiation just to secure a 3-SKU listing - Even with strong credentials (e.g., 15 sites with 5+ cases minimum per week), distributors may still resist listing **Practical tactics:** - Members recommend doing significant leg work yourself rather than relying solely on distributors' internal processes — some have enlisted their accountants to handle sign-off and final calculations - Networking within the community can help: members share useful contacts via direct message - Be prepared for a protracted negotiation; one member noted "that was tough!" and it took considerable effort to eventually secure listings **Caveats:** Members emphasise that distributor relationships are competitive and unpredictable post-COVID. If a relationship sours, rebuilding trust takes time. The landscape remains volatile — members are watching whether R&D claim structure changes will shift wholesale pricing practices.
What are the current payment reliability and account strength of major wine and spirits distributors like Enotria and Venus after recent restructuring?
Payment reliability and account base strength vary significantly among major distributors post-restructuring. **Enotria** — Members consistently report serious payment issues. Feedback ranges from "need a lot of chasing" to "absolutely TERRIBLE TERRIBLE payers," and this has been a chronic issue for years. The distributor has undergone multiple restructurings and refinancing cycles. Their account base has changed substantially since they moved away from being a composite supplier, reducing their range and focusing on selective profitable growth. While still considered a valuable supplier by some, working with them requires careful management of terms to minimise supply disruption. Changes in ownership may improve the situation. **Venus** — Described as a reliable option with a solid account base. A Venus listing makes products available to Booker ontrade/catering channels (a positive), though it does not extend to Tesco, which operates entirely separate buying teams and does not migrate Venus products into their systems. **General approach** — Rather than relying on a distributor's team to sell your brand, members recommend basing any listing decision on your target accounts and working backwards from the bar. Distributors have competing priorities and incentives favour larger players, so expect to drive volume through your own sales activity. Opening up route to market is valuable subject to commercial terms.
What payment term delays should drinks founders expect from major distributors and retailers?
Major UK distributors and retailers frequently pay significantly beyond stated terms, creating serious cash flow strain for producers. **Key challenges members reported:** - **Enotria** — invoices 100+ days overdue; stopped responding to chasers - **Luxury retailers** — taking 3+ months to pay; chasing required throughout - **Ocado** — consistently slow payment - **E&C (Edrington & Co)** — historically took well over 90 days; recently received cash injection to clear debts, so payment may improve but members advised to "trade cautiously" during their recovery period **What members noted:** This is a recurring issue that "crops up every 3 months" and appears cyclical. Large distributors seem unconcerned about reputation damage from late payment. Members should budget for extended payment cycles (120+ days) even when terms state 30 or 60 days, and be prepared for extended chasing. Recent capital injections to some distributors may ease terms, but the pattern suggests ongoing caution is warranted.
Should drinks suppliers quote ex works or all-in pricing (including shipping) when selling to international distributors?
Members strongly recommend quoting **ex works pricing** to international distributors. This keeps suppliers focused on their core manufacturing business rather than logistics, and shifts the organisational burden to importers who are better positioned to handle it. Key principles: - **Quote ex works as your standard** — this is your baseline position and avoids you taking on logistics complexity - **Price list with ~15% variance acceptable** — some regional pricing adjustment is normal - **Be prepared to help occasionally** — in practice, you may end up assisting inexperienced or smaller importers with shipping arrangements to close deals, but this should be charged as an add-on on top of the ex works price, not built in - **Use pro forma invoices** — for at least the first 3 orders, then consider moving to formal payment terms (though this depends on importer size and reliability) The underlying logic: "We are in the manufacturing business not the logistics business" and "Let the importer do the legwork." As you grow, outsource non-core activities and focus on your brand edge and main skill.
What are the key considerations and best practices for entering the US market as a UK drinks brand?
Entering the US market requires understanding that it is fundamentally 50 separate markets (by state), not a single national market. Members recommend treating US expansion similarly to how you would approach the EU—evaluating each region individually rather than assuming a one-size-fits-all national strategy. Key considerations members raised: - **Distributor model** — The US market operates through regional and state-based distributors who function as both logistics organizations and sales forces. Understand that a distributor's strategic view differs from a brand owner's perspective, and distributors typically cannot provide a comprehensive national point of view. - **Regional research** — Several members actively sought wholesaler price lists for specific high-value regions (Florida, NYC) rather than attempting national entry, suggesting a phased regional approach is common. - **Timeline expectations** — Members noted that US market entry "might take longer than 5 mins" to plan—implying the process is more complex and time-consuming than initial expectation. One member has been selling in the USA for 5 years. - **Peer guidance** — Members actively sought calls with others who had "nailed" the USA market, suggesting that peer learning and specific conversations with experienced founders is valuable and encouraged. **Caveat**: The excerpts do not provide detailed tactical guidance on licensing, compliance, shipping, pricing strategy, or specific distributor recommendations. Members appear to be in the early research phase rather than sharing established playbooks.
How can I identify red flags when vetting potential distributors in Southeast Asia?
Members recently investigated **LalaWine (Global Beverages)** operating in Singapore and Vietnam after the company approached them, and identified multiple warning signs that led them to conclude it was likely not a legitimate business partner. Key red flags members identified: - **Website credibility**: New website with broken links and non-functional pages; inability to purchase products through the online shop - **Physical presence**: Shop location does not appear on Google Street View, suggesting it may not exist - **Sponsorships and claims**: Claimed sponsorships (e.g. golf events) do not appear to exist when verified - **Communication style**: Reluctance to get on calls; repetitive, copy-paste email responses rather than direct engagement - **Social media authenticity**: Same person liking all their Facebook posts, suggesting artificial engagement - **Company information**: No verifiable information about the company exists when searching online Members' advice was to keep clear of this distributor. The collective recommendation is to verify physical location, check website functionality and credibility, research claimed partnerships independently, and assess whether potential distributors are willing to engage in direct conversation rather than templated responses.
What's the best approach to pricing and managing international pallet shipping for distributors?
Members recommend offering distributors ex works pricing—let them arrange and pay for shipping rather than building logistics costs into your quote. This shifts the logistics headache and cost responsibility to the distributor. For shippers when you do need to quote, members mention: - **Hillebrand** — experienced and reliable for international pallet shipping, though noted as expensive. Praised for ensuring cargo arrives safely. - **ILaw** — recommended as knowledgeable operators; fellow members at MOTH use them and report they're responsive and professional. Members stressed that shipping costs and logistics have been volatile and expensive recently, so getting firm quotes early from distributors is essential before committing to pricing. The consensus is strong: **always sell ex works** to avoid being exposed to freight cost fluctuations and logistics complications.
Which are the major UK drinks distributors and wholesalers to approach for distribution?
Members shared a mix of established distributors and specialist wholesalers worth approaching. The Grocer publishes an annual ranking of top wholesalers (the 2023 "Big 30" list is available via The Grocer); this is a useful reference point for market mapping. Specific distributors members mentioned include: - **Proof** — listed as a major player - **Mangrove** — noted as a top distributor - **Cask** — established wholesaler - **Marussia** — key operator - **Speciality Brands** — sector-focused distributor - **Ten Locks** — drinks-specific wholesaler - **Love Drinks** — specialist distributor - **Paragon** — additional major distributor One member indicated they have a full list with contact details and expressed willingness to share. The consensus is that consolidation in the distribution market is ongoing, so timing outreach soon is advisable if seeking new distribution partnerships.
Which UK wholesalers and distributors own their own branded spirit products?
Multiple major UK distributors have vertically integrated by acquiring or owning their own spirit brands. Members identified the following: - **LWC** — owns Old J - **Proof** — owns Caz and Cut Rum - **C&C** — owns MCW and several other brands - **GHF** — owns Coates and Sealy - **Paragon** — part-owned by Maison Villevert, which has its own branded products - **Ten Locks** — owns Pod Vodka Members confirmed that vertical integration into owned brands is a common strategy among major distributors, though when asked whether this is an accelerating trend, the response was non-committal ("You'll have to ask them!"), suggesting the trend's pace may require direct inquiry with distributors themselves.
What B2B ordering platform software do drinks distributors use?
**Sellar** is the main platform members recommend for B2B ordering. The platform is still developing, so not all functionality is available yet, but it's praised for being easy to use and having a responsive team (led by Matt). The main challenge members report is adoption — getting customers to actually use the platform — though this can be worked around by generating orders and invoices yourself if needed. Members using it are generally satisfied with the experience.