Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What are the best bars and venues in London to take industry contacts to experience current drinks scene trends?
Members consistently recommend several venues as top choices for entertaining industry contacts. For cutting-edge, newer venues: Kwant (recently won best bar food at CLASS awards), Coupette in Soho (known for small plates and interesting tasting-size cocktails), Cavita's downstairs bar concept (consulted by Mr Lyan, features DJ, small mezcal den vibe), and Dram are popular. For established classics with strong credentials: Three Sheets Soho, Swift Soho, Satan's Whiskers, Thin White Duke, Chiltern Firehouse, Connaught, and Claridges. Members also mention Mr Foggs Apothecary, Murder Inc (central), Soma, Duke's, and Scarfes. Swift Soho requires booking and has a strict door policy even with reservations; walk-ins are typically not accepted. Three Sheets is described as worth the trek despite being slightly out of the way. Coupette allows you to work through the menu with tasting-size cocktails but note the cost. For food, Swift has minimal options but Murder Inc's nachos are noted as outstanding, and Kwant is specifically recognised for bar food quality.
Which trade shows deliver the best ROI for drinks brands: ProWein, Sial, Anuga, Berlin Cocktails, and Foodies Festivals?
ProWein has proven productive for members—one member noted strong returns from Seven Tails. Berlin Cocktails (BCB) is worth attending for meetings and networking with international distributors, but opinions on exhibiting vary: one member has maintained a stand since 2018 with great returns, while others found it overpriced, disorganised, and difficult to stand out alone. The show is most valuable for year-round partner reviews, meeting new distributors across multiple countries, and accessing industry networking events—less valuable if pursuing German domestic distribution. A collaborative Kindred stand was suggested as a way to solve visibility issues and create buzz. Foodies Festivals received consistently negative feedback on ROI. Members described them as expensive to exhibit at with no guaranteed footfall, attracting crowds primarily interested in free samples rather than brand engagement. One member lost money at Bristol Foodies (2023) but profited at Exeter thanks to higher-spending attendees and good weather. The consensus is to be highly selective, negotiate pitch fees aggressively, and avoid unless you can secure a discounted late-minute spot or identify a specific festival with proven higher-quality footfall in your category.
What is the financial and operational performance of participating in Pub in the Park events as a bottle shop or bar operator?
Members' experience with Pub in the Park is decidedly mixed and depends heavily on format and location. For bottle sales, most participants do not break even financially—one member who did "all of them over the years" noted they're "very hit and miss" and shouldn't be expected to turn profit on off-sales. Marlow is the strongest performing location; Bath performs okay; other venues were described as "awful." However, a collaboration model—partnering with a bar operator rather than running standalone bottle sales—has worked better, eliminating staffing costs and accommodation risk while maintaining visibility. For pouring bars, the picture has shifted: members running cocktail/draught operations report doing "pretty good" at some locations, though they're seeing a downward trend. This is because event organisers increasingly prioritize pouring bars (now 15 per event vs. previously 5–6) because they generate more upfront cash than bottle shops, squeezing the economics for smaller operators. Pitch fees are negotiable, especially when committing to the full portfolio of events, but organisers have historically had cash-flow issues—this varies with their desperation and how many pitches they've already sold. The fundamental challenge: most attendees are there for the vibe, music, and food, not to shop for bottles. Success requires strong positioning (good setup, DJ, visibility), competitive pricing, and a recognizable brand—major spirits brands have largely secured the best bar pitches. Members now use these events selectively for quieter weekends when alternative activations aren't available, viewing them primarily as brand exposure rather than revenue drivers.
What is a good rate of sale (ROS) benchmark for spirits and RTD products in UK retail stores?
Members report that benchmarks vary significantly by product type and retail channel. For grocery stores generally, 1 bottle per store per week is considered a basic benchmark across spirits (alc and non-alc). For RTD cans in grocery, the consensus sits at 4–5 units per store per week as average, though members note RTD ranges between 6–10 units weekly depending on the product. One member reported being targeted at Sainsbury's on a premium tequila (£34) at 4–5 cans per week. Anything over 6 units per week for RTD is considered a great success by one experienced member. Context matters significantly: chiller placement and shelf position drive substantially stronger ROS, as do multi-buy promotions (which account for a large percentage of RTD sales). Tesco Metro locations tend to show notably stronger velocity. Members also noted that Costco turns stock 12+ times per year (fastest in industry), traditional retail closer to 3–5 times annually, and that buyer profitability calculations—gross margin after promotions and investment—now often matter as much as raw volume in securing listings.
Which Pub in the Park artisan market locations are worth exhibiting at, and what should brands expect in terms of ROI and costs?
Members report highly variable results depending on location and booth positioning. Marlow, Wimbledon, and Tunbridge Wells have been profitable for some, though Marlow's performance can fluctuate year-to-year. St Albans is noted as 'good for alcohol'. Chiswick has strong foot traffic but a less effective layout. Location within the event is critical—a poor spot can make the difference between profit and loss, even at otherwise promising venues. Members strongly recommend negotiating hard on booth fees, as these events are expensive to exhibit at. The artisan market itself is considered less valuable than 'proper pitches' at the same events. Avoid Foodies events (Brighton cited as weak; also noted as more expensive than Pub in the Park and problematic operationally). Wimbledon and Dulwich have both delivered good results for at least one exhibitor.
What margins and commitments do major UK retailers expect from drinks suppliers?
Retailer margins vary significantly by channel and retailer type. **Off-trade (retail) margins** typically range from 25–40%, though some premium retailers push higher and occasional outliers demand 70%. **Premium supermarkets** (Waitrose, Sainsbury's) calculate margin as NOG (Net on Gross, including VAT), targeting 20–25%; **value supermarkets** (Tesco, Asda) use POR (Profit on Return, ex-VAT), targeting 27–32%. Margins are often blended between on-promotion and off-promotion prices, and the retailer will guide expected basket mix. **Premium independent retailers** like Daylesford may expect margins around 55%. **On-trade (pub) margins** are much higher: independent pubs typically seek 60–75% gross profit (calculated on per-serve pricing, e.g. 10 serves × 6 margin = 60% vs. purchase price). Pubs standard gross profit is 70–72%. **Harrods** specifically targets gross profit of 42–45% and expects back margin of around £1m annually; spirits buyers are nick.fleming@harrods.com and wines buyers are siobhan.irons@harrods.com. A key note: Harrods' vodka and gin sales are weak (c. £3k/week) compared to whisky, Bordeaux and burgundy (£100k+/week), and baijiu and tequila significantly outsell gin and vodka—listing there is a lighthouse for brand and export positioning rather than volume. Members caution that some retailers (e.g. Whole Foods) may not suit alcohol due to margin constraints, and retailers like Cress may demand unsustainably high margins relative to volume opportunity.
How should wholesalers be charged for delivery, and what's the best approach to implementing price increases to wholesale partners?
Members emphasize two key principles: delivery should always be included in the wholesale price (never charged separately to the wholesaler), and price increases should be implemented annually rather than ad-hoc to avoid larger, more damaging jumps later. **Delivery pricing:** - Always quote a delivered wholesale price—build your average delivery cost into the per-unit pricing rather than invoicing separately - Use minimum order quantities (MOQ) as a lever: if orders fall below a certain threshold (e.g., less than a case or below pallet quantities), you can introduce an additional delivery fee to protect margin - Some regional or friendly wholesalers may even collect from you, but this should never be assumed **Price increase strategy:** - Implement annual increases as standard practice, even if COGS haven't moved significantly. Members stressed this builds the habit with wholesalers, who expect it and typically request pay rises themselves annually - Typical increases range from 3–12% depending on circumstances; members who delayed increases for 5 years faced the risk of needing a large catch-up adjustment later - Provide 3 months' notice before implementation (typically end of September for January implementation) - Use the phrase "Price Movement" rather than "price increase"—it's more palatable - Always provide clear rationale: cover both macro issues (inflation, duty, COGS) and micro issues (brand positioning, retail price barriers) - Consider your brand's market position and the impact on retail shelf price; be aware of psychological price barriers (e.g., £20, £25, £30 for spirits) - Don't over-communicate; treat increases as routine market adjustment, not a major negotiation **Initial wholesale pricing:** When setting up direct-to-hotel or direct wholesale arrangements, build in a "wholesale buffer margin" (estimated at 15% or £5–6 per case) to protect yourself if the wholesaler later needs to source through a distributor. Wholesalers typically expect 50% of retail selling price as gross profit.
Which industry awards competitions are worth entering for credibility and ROI, and what's the best strategy for competition submissions?
The awards landscape is increasingly crowded and many competitions have diminished value. Members recommend a focused, strategic approach rather than entering multiple competitions. **Most valued competitions globally:** - **San Francisco World Spirits Competition** — cited as the most globally recognised and prestigious; has separate sections for liquid and design. However, one member cautioned they're "constantly surprised at the top award winners." - **IWSC (International Wine and Spirit Competition)** — particularly strong in South-East Asia and Europe; holds good traction in different markets than San Francisco - Members noted that **different regions favour different competitions** — IWSC may carry more weight in SE Asia and Europe, San Francisco stateside; impact may vary by spirit category **Strategy recommendations:** - **Enter 1–2 prestigious awards per year maximum** — don't enter multiple competitions. Once you have a couple of wins, stop entering unless pursuing a specific strategy. - **Rotate which SKU you enter** — if you have 3 products, enter a different one each year rather than entering all categories repeatedly - **Choose based on your target market** — tailor competition selection to geographic expansion plans and where those awards hold sway - **Leverage wins for PR and trade conversation** — the real value isn't consumer-facing (most don't know the difference between awarding bodies); instead use wins to generate media coverage, give sales teams talking points with the trade, and provide independent quality verification - **The Grey Goose precedent** — a legendary example: they won San Francisco on first entry, claimed the title publicly, then never entered again. This only works if the competition awards a single winner (not multiple golds) - **Enter international awards for distributor prospecting** — some members noted that competing in international competitions like International Spirit Selection puts your brand in front of judges who are often distributors, leading to unsolicited distributor enquiries in new markets **Caveats:** - Many competitions are "a bit of a racket" with high entry fees and diluted credibility from handing out too many medals - Importers and buyers don't typically ask for awards; liquor boards (like Canada's LCBO) may reference them, but don't rely on awards alone to drive rotation - Consumer purchasing decisions are ultimately taste-based, not award-based - Resting on a win without active promotion is a wasted entry fee
Which consumer shows and trade events should we exhibit at throughout the year for product sampling and direct sales?
Members recommend a mix of dedicated food and drink consumer fairs and seasonal events, with proven returns on investment. The key is choosing shows that align with your product category and price point. **Proven shows:** - **BBC Good Food Show** — strong performer; one member sold 820 bottles of their £20 (70cl) product at the winter edition and 530 at summer, generating significant revenue - **Ideal Home Show / Eat&Drink Festival** (runs late November–early December at Olympia) — described as "a must attend" with "great return" for spirits brands; typically sells bottled product around the £30 retail price point **Key planning points:** - Clarify before committing: whether you can sell ready-made cocktails, bottles for off-licence, or both - Understand stand setup costs and requirements upfront - Track sales volume and retail price to compare ROI across events - Consider creating a shared member list of annual events and feedback by category, so brands can learn from each other's experiences at different shows **Caveat:** Members are still collecting comprehensive year-round event data. The above reflects confirmed recent experience; a more complete calendar is being compiled by the community.
Which industry awards and competitions should spirits brands prioritise based on their target market strategy?
The value of industry awards depends heavily on your target market. Members identify a clear hierarchy: **For B2C/Consumer Recognition:** - **Great Taste Awards** — the only award consumers consistently recognise across retail and direct channels. At £40 per entry with cheap stickers, it offers the best ROI for consumer-facing brands. The award itself (bronze/silver/gold) is easily understood by the public, unlike most trade-only medals. **For Trade/On-Trade (UK):** - **CLASS Brand Awards** — particularly valuable for building trust in quality within the top-tier on-trade. Brings together highly regarded industry professionals and has strong buyer attendance. Best leveraged as a sponsorship opportunity to connect with decision-makers before/after the event rather than at the event itself. - **International Spirits Challenge (ISC)** — top-tier trade recognition, though entry costs have become "stupidly expensive" with "little to no reward" relative to other options. - **IWSC** — globally recognised across the entire industry. One of only two awards that pay judges for their time (the other being World Drinks Awards), meaning better judging talent. Members note this works well for distributor credibility. **Global/Export Strategy:** - **IWSC** — the only award that "actually matters and is recognised in every part of the industry" globally. - **San Francisco World Spirits Competition** — holds significant sway in the US market, though members debate how many spirit brands actually use these medals on bottles. **Strategic Approach:** Members emphasise that awards are increasingly commoditised, with most competitions awarding so many medals (gold/silver/bronze) that consumer recognition is diluted. The real value comes from: (1) choosing awards aligned to your specific market (consumer vs. trade vs. export), and (2) actively leveraging the award afterward through marketing, distributor pitches, and networking—not just "moving on after the champagne hangover has faded." A "double whammy" strategy of nailing both IWSC and Great Taste covers global credibility and UK consumer recognition. Members question whether entering multiple times after an initial win adds meaningful value, though anecdotal evidence suggests distributor interest can spike following awards (e.g., Taiwan distributor outreach after World Liqueur Awards win). **Caveats:** - Most awards are now seen as "wallpaper" with commercial insignificance due to oversupply. - Many brands don't put medals on bottles, limiting consumer-facing ROI. - Entry costs are high for ISC and similar trade-only awards relative to actual business impact. - Consumer recognition is the exception (Great Taste); most other awards only resonate within industry circles.
How should indie drinks brands approach pricing strategy—setting wholesale discounts, communicating retail price increases, and managing annual wholesale price hikes?
Pricing strategy for indie brands involves three main challenges: wholesale discount structures, communicating retail price increases to consumers, and managing annual wholesale price rises. **Wholesale discount structures and RRP enforcement** - Members recommend working backwards from your recommended retail price (RRP ex-VAT) to set wholesale costs. A **20–30% discount** to RRP is typical starting territory, though this varies by retailer and volume. - Online players like **Master of Malt** consistently undercut RRP due to their margin structure; this is a common industry issue. You cannot legally dictate retail prices—only recommend them—so "RRP" is advisory only under UK competition law. - If a wholesaler is damaging your brand perception through heavy discounting, the option is to raise the price you charge *them*, but be prepared that they may drop the listing. Members report this is a negotiation point, not a mandate. - Contact at Master of Malt: **Julie Trewren** (julie.trewren@masterofmalt.com), ex-Matthew Clark buyer, joined by **Lisa Halstead** as her deputy. **Retail price increases and consumer communication** - The way price increases are communicated to consumers is critical. Members suggest adding modest amounts per bottle (e.g., £1) rather than large jumps, and explaining the cost drivers clearly. - One member who had not taken a price increase for 9 years (at Don Papa) found their first increase was too cautious in hindsight. Major brands are more assertive; for small indies, weigh whether a price increase or margin erosion is more painful long-term. **Annual wholesale price increases** - Most wholesalers require price change notifications by early October for January 1st implementation. - General principle: costs rise, prices should rise; holding back builds long-term margin problems. Buyers will always reject increases initially—that's their negotiating role. - You **cannot discuss price increase levels** with competitors (this breaches UK competition law on cartels and price-fixing). Each brand must set increases independently based on their own cost movements. - Recent inflation has stabilised dry goods after double-digit increases; French importers are estimating **5% maximum** price maintenance depending on volume and negotiations. **New product pricing research** - For launching new products, members recommend **Simon at SH Foodie** (simon@shfoodie.com), who conducts tabletop trials with a few hundred units and is described as helpful and collaborative. This has been useful for brands like Bloody Drinks. **Caveats** - Do not discuss specific price increase percentages with other brands—this is illegal under competition law. - Wholesalers operate on different margin structures than traditional retailers; accept that online discounting is difficult to control.
How should spirits and drinks businesses manage pricing in response to duty increases?
The 1st August duty increase is coming, and members recommend being proactive rather than deferring price rises. Here's the collective approach: **Timing and cash flow:** - **Duty comes into effect 1st August** — this is a firm date to plan around - If cash flow allows, **duty-pay stock on 31st July** rather than pre-selling ahead of the increase, to avoid locking in old duty rates - Prepare for the cash flow impact of a 10% increase in duty when calculating working capital needs **Pricing strategy:** - **Stick to your guns on pricing** — don't erode margins by absorbing the increase. The trade expects price moves from major brands, so your customers are psychologically prepared - **Don't lowball the increase.** Deferring pricing just "kicks the can down the road and makes the pain worse." The last decade of low inflation was the aberration; price increases are a normal part of the business cycle - **Check wholesaler maths carefully.** When wholesalers calculate duty-paid pricing and ask you to confirm you're passing it on, verify their numbers — they sometimes get it wrong - **Use price increases strategically.** An increase may let you break a price barrier in the market (e.g. moving from £9.99 to £10.99), which retailers appreciate since they like fixed price points (£9.99, £10.49, £10.89, etc.). This can actually generate more margin per unit **Market context:** - Major brands have been taking increases for over a year, so the trade is already expecting them from smaller players - Everyone faces the same cost pressures — glass prices are rising with limited suppliers, so the entire market will generally move in the same direction - Price increases drive premiumisation; the gap between price points narrows, making premium positioning more valuable - If a customer pushes back saying "I know how much it costs," point out that own-label doesn't command a price premium for a reason — your brand positioning justifies the price **Caveat:** Don't describe increases as a "necessary evil" — frame them as normal business management. This mindset will make the conversations easier.
What are the red flags for identifying fraudulent bulk order requests and scam distributors?
Several patterns consistently signal scam orders and fraudulent distributors: **Email and communication red flags:** - Generic greeting lines like "I hope this email finds you well" are a strong warning sign - Gmail or similar free email addresses (not a company domain) for business inquiries - Generic language that doesn't mention your specific products by name - Extremely large orders (e.g. 70,000+ bottles) that seem unrealistic for the contact method - Orders placed via email where the person stops responding when asked for a phone call to discuss - Contact email address that differs from the retailer's official domain **Verification steps:** - **Phone call test** — Always insist on a phone conversation with large or suspicious inquiries; scammers typically stop responding - **DBT/DIT trade advisors** — Members recommend contacting your Department for Business and Trade (or former DIT) trade advisor, who maintains a blacklist of known scam companies and can cross-check against international counterparts (e.g. French authorities) - **Company research** — Poor SEO presence or website quality can indicate a shell operation - **Reference example** — One member was approached by a company claiming to be Laval Distribution (lavaldistributionste.net) with a 70,000-bottle order; when a phone call was requested, emails stopped immediately **Historical context:** Members have encountered recurring waves of these scams; one member reported that when they escalated a suspicious French distributor to DBT, their trade advisor immediately contacted French counterparts, who confirmed it was fraudulent.
Which UK trade shows and events are worth the investment for drinks brands, and should smaller independents exhibit at shows like Imbibe?
The community is cautious about trade show ROI and recommends a strategic approach rather than blanket attendance. **Imbibe** — Generally not recommended. Members report: - Lots of negative feedback from brands in recent years - "An event with diminishing returns" - Last year was half the size of previous years; members are surprised it's continuing - Attendance includes many "glass collectors returning for free samples" rather than serious buyers - High costs (large stand, staffing, hotels, agencies) with limited lead generation **UK Catering Platform** — Worth considering. One member who attended in 2019 secured direct sales from: - Fenwick buyer - Partridges - Several independent buyers (some converted to direct purchasing) **Speciality & Fine Food (Olympia)** — Limited feedback in the discussion; ask directly in the group if considering. **Decision framework members use:** - Consider opportunity cost: the stand/staffing/hotel costs could instead fund someone making 10 targeted calls per day for months - Pre-schedule meetings with existing customers and warm leads in advance to increase ROI - Shows work best for brands that are easily sold through sampling ("so good it will easily sell") or for new launches requiring brand awareness - Budget constraints matter: some agencies switched from Imbibe to NRB Manchester this year as a more cost-effective substitute - Focus on whether the event targets your actual buyer demographic vs. attracting non-purchasing attendees **Caveat:** One member notes shows "should be a demand driver" but "ironically it could end up more about brand awareness if few leads" — clarify your actual goal (lead generation vs. awareness) before committing.
What is the ROI and effectiveness of attending major drinks trade shows like Taste of London, Spirit of Christmas, and Barcode—especially without a dedicated bar stand?
Trade shows deliver mixed returns depending on your product type, the show's audience composition, and how well you activate. Here's what members have learned: **Taste of London** — A consumer-focused event, not primarily a trade play. Members report a good mix of trade and consumers, but ROI varies widely depending on activation quality. The summer event draws fewer trade/press benefits than expected; the winter event performs better for bottle sales (gifting purchases). RTD brands selling for on-site consumption do reasonable volumes, but cans don't move well—people attend to consume, not take inventory home. One member found the winter event "slightly better than summer for people buying bottles for gifting." **Spirit of Christmas** — Expect heavy sampling and mixed results from participating brands. One member reported "some great, some dogs." Cost can be shared effectively with complementary brands (e.g., pairing with another category to split stand costs). No members reported strong revenue gains; it's better positioned as brand awareness than a revenue driver. **Barcode** — Hard to measure direct ROI, but members consider it a "must" for visibility if you want to get in front of all major grocers. One member noted it's "an important place to be" if you have solid relationships with multiple buyers already. Multiple small stands can be more cost-effective than one large one. Effectiveness depends heavily on pre-existing buyer relationships; without them, the value diminishes significantly. **Key caveats:** Without a bar stand, you're limited to sampling and bottle/case sales—which works for gifting/RTD but not for impulse consumption. Setup effort can be substantial relative to returns. Trade shows work best as part of a broader strategy if you have existing relationships to leverage.
Are spirits competitions and awards worth entering—do they drive real commercial value or sales?
Mixed returns: members report awards can add credibility and open distributor doors, but consumer recognition is minimal and many competitions lack rigour. **Value drivers:** - **B2B/distributor reach** — One judge noted awards get your liquid tasted by many people, including distributors looking for quality, and have opened doors that way. Useful for building trade relationships rather than consumer pull. - **Monopoly tender eligibility** — Some awards (particularly **San Francisco** and **IWSC**) carry weight with government monopolies and LCBO consideration; less certain for domestic UK buyers. - **Launch momentum** — A major win (e.g. "Best London Dry in England") can serve as a good launch platform and generate social media coverage from the award organisers. - **Trade credibility** — Members report using awards to add authenticity to claims (e.g. full gin taste at lower ABV) when approaching buyers and investors. **Significant caveats:** - **Quality control issues** — Multiple members reported serious problems: tasting notes that bore no relation to the product entered, judges appearing to have tasted the wrong product, and botanicals from one product mixed up with another. One member called IWSC judging "a complete shambles." - **Low consumer impact** — Trade buyers don't typically connect with these awards; they're described as "wallpaper" from a consumer perspective and not a meaningful differentiator on retail shelf. - **Expensive with diminishing returns** — Members suggest entering many awards yields marginal ROI; one brand has stepped back after winning multiple medals. The entry fee and time investment isn't guaranteed to translate to sales. - **Low barriers to entry** — One member noted the London Spirits Competition has "quite a low bar," meaning awards are easier to win but less distinctive as a result. **Strategy:** Most useful if you're actively pursuing wholesale/distribution or monopoly listings. Less valuable purely for consumer marketing or if you're betting on retail shelf visibility.
What are members' experiences with major UK trade shows and spirits festivals, and which events do they recommend?
Members have participated in a range of trade shows and festivals with mixed results. Here's what the community has experienced: **Taste of London** — Multiple members have exhibited here with non-alcoholic brands (Seedlip, Aecorn, Della Vite). Members recommend connecting directly with others who've attended for detailed feedback on ROI and footfall. **Gin and rum festivals** — Members report these are "great" and worth doing repeatedly. Expect strong footfall: one member noted they "get hit hard" and typically take around £1,500 in a day. Stock plenty of samples. **BBC Gardeners' World Shows** — One member reported "good footfall and slightly different/new audience but arguably not worth the cost" for their brand. Results appear product-dependent. **VinExpo** — Described as "very good" and "the first big show of the year" with a spirits focus. Exhibiting members have stands available and offer open networking to other Kindred members. **Gulfoods (Dubai)** — At least one member has attended and can make introductions to their exhibition team. **BCB Berlin** — Recommended by members who have exhibited there multiple times. **Important caveat:** Members explored the idea of a collective Kindred trade show to reduce individual booth costs, but decided against it after learning the logistics and costs involved. The consensus is that professional event organisers (with years of experience) handle these for good reason, and booth fees reflect genuine operational costs, not exploitation.
What pricing strategy should we use when alcohol excise duty increases?
When excise duty increases, members strongly recommend passing the full increase directly onto customers rather than absorbing it into margin. **Key points:** - **Pass on the full increase** — Members emphasise this is "the only cost increase where the buyer cannot argue about the level or source of it." In the current cost climate, absorbing any part "would be madness" and the cost would simply get lost among other rising expenses. - **Customers expect it** — Buyers will always pass duty increases onto shelf price, so you should too; they understand duty is a fixed, transparent cost. - **Example calculation** — For a 37.5% ABV spirit in 70cl, a duty increase from £28.74 to £32.82 per pure litre equates to approximately 33p per bottle, which should be passed through directly. - **Stock timing opportunity** — If advance notice of the increase is available (members mentioned February 2023 as a possible implementation date), consider moving stock out of bond ahead of the increase or negotiating bulk pre-increase purchases with customers at a slightly elevated price—they will be trying to beat the increase anyway, creating a brief window to capture additional margin. - **Price-marked packs complexity** — One member flagged that adjusting price-marked packs post-duty increase is complex and worth planning for. - **Confirm through industry bodies** — The WSTA (Wine and Spirit Trade Association) receives HMT confirmation on duty decisions; membership is recommended to stay informed on timing and implementation.
Do major retailers and wholesalers require Sale or Return agreements, and what impact does SOR have on cash flow and invoice factoring?
Not all major retailers insist on Sale or Return, though some wholesalers do. Members report mixed experiences. **SOR prevalence and negotiation:** - Several members have successfully avoided SOR terms with major retailers (Waitrose, Three Spirit) by maintaining smaller volumes that don't pose significant inventory risk to the retailer. - Some wholesalers insist on SOR "as a rule" but members note there's often limited commercial rationale beyond the wholesaler's desire to avoid being left with unsold stock. - When volumes are small, SOR hasn't caused major problems for members who've accepted it. **Cash flow and factoring impact:** - **SOR agreements create significant cash flow friction when factoring invoices.** Members who factor for working capital have explicitly avoided SOR terms because they "mess things up" — factoring houses typically won't purchase invoices under SOR terms since the debt isn't legally settled. - One member reported that under SOR terms, wholesalers can delay payment indefinitely by claiming prior invoices' stock hasn't fully sold, creating frustration on smaller volumes and potentially serious issues at scale. **Alternative approaches:** - Rather than accept SOR, members suggest exploring alternative distribution channels (Drinks Supermarket, C&Carry, other wholesalers) if a primary wholesaler demands it, reducing the pressure to capitulate to unfavourable terms. **Key caveat:** SOR becomes a real problem only at meaningful volumes. Small listings (e.g. "a case a week") are manageable under SOR but scaling up while locked into SOR could create serious cash flow strain.
How should I price a 3-hour corporate cocktail service event when the client has already purchased the stock themselves?
When pricing a corporate cocktail service where the client has already bought the spirits, you're essentially charging for labour, equipment, and setup rather than product margin. Members suggest two approaches: **Cost-plus pricing:** Add up all direct costs (staff wages at standard bar rates, glassware, ice, setup and breakdown) and apply a 50% markup for profit. **Per-head value pricing:** Charge £20 per head for the first hour, then £10 per head for each additional hour. This typically yields £300–£500 for a 3-hour event depending on guest count. Members noted this approach captures the experiential value without relying on product margin. **Key considerations:** - Factor in glassware, ice, bar setup, and your own labour at proper bar rates—these are your actual costs since the client owns the stock - If the client is a high-net-worth corporate (e.g. major finance firms), members suggested pricing at the premium end or above - Members acknowledged this is "difficult" compared to events where you supply and margin the stock, so value-based pricing helps offset the lost product margin One member recommended speaking to **Nick Bar Nation** for detailed guidance on structuring the quote.
What are realistic ROAS targets and cost-per-acquisition benchmarks for D2C alcohol brands advertising on Meta?
ROAS targets vary significantly by business model and margin structure, but members report aiming for **3:1 revenue-to-ad-spend ratio** as a general industry benchmark. However, the drinks industry faces particular challenges due to duty costs (c. £9 on 40% ABV) and delivery fees (c. £5), which compress margins dramatically. **Key metrics and targets from the community:** - **5.5 ROAS target** — one established D2C operator (100,000+ Shopify orders achieved) sets this as their benchmark across all D2C channels (not just Meta, due to platform attribution unreliability). They pull back spend if ROAS falls below this threshold. - **50% minimum margin requirement** — members stressed this is the floor for sustainable D2C; without it, acquisition costs cannot be recovered profitably. - **First-order profitability as non-negotiable** — don't rely on customer lifetime value to subsidise acquisition, especially post-iOS privacy changes. One member reported £22 per purchase cost against a £46 average basket value (break-even on first order), relying on re-orders for profit. - **Customer lifetime value (LTV) focus** — D2C profitability depends on repeat purchases, not first-order ROAS alone. New releases, seasonal offers (e.g. Christmas), and strong creative assets improve Meta performance. - **Real-world example:** £10 ad spend on a £30 net sale leaves minimal margin after product costs, duty (£9), and delivery (£5). **Caveats:** Meta attribution is unreliable; measure ROAS across all D2C sales channels, not just platform-reported metrics. VAT must also be factored into margin calculations. Success on Meta is now limited to tactical moments (new releases, promotions, seasonal campaigns) rather than sustained performance.
What is the ROI and attendee behaviour at craft beer festivals, and are events like Savour Festival worth participating in?
Member experience with craft beer festivals is mixed, with significant caveats about attendee purchasing behaviour. **Key findings on attendee behaviour:** - Craft beer festival crowds are enthusiast-focused but not reliable repeat purchasers—attendees "love to try everything once but are never really repeat purchasers" - The demographic may be misaligned for non-beer brands; hard seltzers faced uncertainty about ROI at these events **Events members have participated in:** - **Brew LDN** — Members have direct experience and report willingness to share detailed feedback privately - **Tobacco Dock (August event)** — One member found the price "reasonable" given the ability to both sell drinks and bottles on-site - **Savour Festival (2024)** — A member indicated they would follow up with their team on whether involvement was worthwhile, but no conclusive feedback was provided at time of discussion **Caveats:** Members noted uncertainty about whether the cost justifies participation, particularly for brands outside the core craft beer category. The craft beer enthusiast audience is described as "tricky"—high trial but low loyalty. Geographic concentration (London-based events) may also limit broader market reach.
How much commercial return do spirits competition awards (e.g., London Spirits, IWSC) actually deliver—do they drive sales conversations or are they mainly for marketing collateral?
Members' experience suggests awards have **limited direct sales impact** but can be useful for **marketing and distribution leverage** if deployed strategically. **Direct commercial conversations:** The blind judging format means judges don't see who made the product, so don't expect to network with them or generate sales leads during the competition itself. Several members entered competitions and saw no follow-up commercial interest afterwards, despite winning medals. **Marketing and retailer credibility:** Where awards work is as a **sticker for retailers** and **credentials for distributors**—if you're trying to convince buyers that your product is credible, a gold or silver from a recognised body helps. One member noted that winning "same or better than bigger-well-established brands" helps build consumer trust and can be leveraged in marketing. **Quality concerns:** Members flagged **significant issues with tasting notes accuracy**—multiple people reported receiving shelf-wobblers or labels with incorrect botanical descriptions that don't match the spirit. One member received notes crediting a botanical not in their gin. This raises questions about judging rigor, particularly at **IWSC** (which had similar accuracy problems reported). **International variation:** Awards carry different weight by channel and geography. One member noted their non-alcoholic brand won double golds in San Francisco but got very different results in New York with the same body—so the same award may mean different things to different markets. **Frequency:** Members suggest entering **once every 2–3 years** rather than repeatedly, unless you believe a previous result was unfair. One entry per year is the lower end; entering multiple times annually is usually not cost-effective unless you have a specific channel goal and a new product to test. **The caveat:** To get actual ROI, you need to know **how to leverage the award for your specific channel**—it's not automatic. Simply winning a gold from IWSC may not drive sales unless you actively use it in distributor pitches or retailer negotiations. Also watch for scams in award bodies (one member noted some are legitimate, others not)—vet before paying entry fees.
What are effective strategies to compete with other sellers (like Master of Malt) for the Amazon buy box and maintain control over your product listings?
The buy box typically goes to the lowest-priced seller, but your strategy depends on which Amazon selling model you use. Here's what members have tested: **Selling model choice:** - **Amazon FBA (Fulfillment by Amazon)** — Prioritised by Amazon's algorithm over third-party sellers and gives Prime eligibility. You win the buy box if your price is lowest among FBA sellers. Members report this is the strongest position for controlling your brand and pricing. - **Amazon Vendor** — Gives you automatic buy box control (Amazon handles pricing), but you lose price control and Amazon may push you to match aggressive competitor pricing elsewhere on the web. **Tactics to maintain the buy box at better margins:** - **Price strategically above cost and let competitors match** — Rather than a race to the bottom, raise your price and add a retro (discount/rebate). Master of Malt will typically increase their price to match yours once you stop cutting, and you'll win the buy box again at the higher price point. This works because they want margin too. - **Block resellers via brand exclusivity** — You can apply to be the official seller and prevent anyone else selling your product on Amazon. The downside is Amazon requires a bespoke QR code on every pack sent via their channel, which may cost more than the margin gain. - **Opt out of Amazon's pricing algorithm** — Available but hits your sales rate significantly on Amazon, so members don't recommend it. **Margin reality check:** - If you're selling direct-to-consumer via FBA at RRP minus Amazon fees, that margin should be higher than wholesale to Master of Malt. If not, you're pricing wrong. - Selling to resellers like Master of Malt may actually yield better margin per unit than FBA after accounting for Amazon's fees (fulfillment, referral, advertising), so some members sell both channels. - Amazon only compares pricing on Amazon itself, not across external sites like eBay or your website, so you can maintain RRP elsewhere without triggering repricing. **Key caveat:** Members who've succeeded used FBA plus brand exclusivity (blocking other sellers) to avoid the race to the bottom entirely—this drove them to three #1 bestsellers. However, the QR code enforcement cost needs to pencil out against your margins.
How are UK spirits and brewing founders responding to rising material and energy costs, and what pricing strategies are they using?
Rising input costs across the supply chain are forcing producers to pass increases to consumers to maintain margins. Cost pressures are significant and widespread. **Cost increases members reported:** - Glass up 11% (though some suppliers reported energy-related hikes up to 25% on their own costs) - Cardboard rising sharply - Botanicals and juniper up substantially (juniper prices now approaching double what they were 5 years ago) - Energy bills up nearly 30% - Sealing wax and other ancillary materials all rising - Shipping costs up across the board **Pricing response:** - **Major brewers** raising prices by 5% in Q1, with expectations of another 5% rise mid-2022 - Members acknowledge they must pass some costs onto consumers or margins will be unsustainable **Key caveat:** The member consensus is that cost inflation is broad-based and severe ("everything from sealing wax to botanicals and blinking cardboard is well up"), making it difficult to absorb costs without retail price increases. Members are watchful about further energy price increases, which remain uncertain.
How should small drinks brands approach seasonal discounting (Black Friday, Christmas) without destroying margins and brand value?
Members emphasise that deep seasonal discounting is often a losing game for small premium brands. The consensus is: **don't participate unless it genuinely works for your business model and customer base**. **Strategic alternatives members are using:** - **Clear slow-moving or nearly-expired stock** — Several members use Black Friday/seasonal periods specifically to liquidate dead inventory at discount rather than applying across-the-board cuts. This frees cash from working capital without eroding core product margins. - **Modest, purpose-driven discounts** — One member runs "Green Friday" offers on B Corp soft drinks with tree-planting tied to sales, reframing the event around values rather than race-to-bottom pricing. - **Tiered discounting** — Offer small discounts on core range (e.g. 20%), larger discounts on slow-moving SKUs only. This protects your flagship products while moving problem stock. - **New customer acquisition campaigns** — Position it as a trial/tasting campaign rather than a blanket sale. Members note it can work for customer discovery if margins allow. - **Skip it entirely** — Several premium brands simply don't participate. One importer cited the "Huit Denim approach": close the website, reopen after the event when "common sense returns." Multiple members note that for premium aged spirits at £25–£50, the math rarely works—you attract cheaper customers, spend heavily on ads to reach them, and end up with zero margin. **Key warnings:** - Seasonal discounting in premium spirits is often a trap. Customers buy rum 2–3 times a year anyway (Christmas gifts, birthdays, Father's Day); heavy Black Friday discounting doesn't create incremental volume, it just shifts when people buy and at lower price points. - Turnover is vanity; margin is sanity. Don't get sucked into a race to the bottom you can't win. - Massive competitor discounts (e.g. Diageo's aggressive pricing) make modest 20% offers look pointless and devalue the entire category. - Advertising costs to acquire discount-hunting customers often exceed the margin you make. **The underlying advice:** If running Black Friday isn't profitable within 60 days *and* doesn't align with your brand values, skip it. Focus on making the rest of the year succeed and selling less at higher margin.
How can drinks brands access Amazon sales and category data for competitor analysis?
Amazon does not directly sell category-level sales data, but members identified several practical routes: - **Amazon's own bestseller lists** — The top 100 bestsellers across all categories are published on Amazon's site and updated every 15 minutes, available free to anyone. - **Amazon Vendor Central** — Sellers gain access to their own sales data (and can track performance metrics) as part of their vendor agreement; Amazon takes a percentage of sales in exchange. - **Helium 10** — Third-party tool that provides sales history and competitor product insights, allowing you to estimate competitor performance. - **Jungle Scout** — Alternative third-party platform offering similar competitor tracking and sales data analysis. Members noted that while these tools can't reveal exact competitor sales figures (Amazon keeps that proprietary), they allow you to reverse-engineer estimates from rankings and review velocity. The paid tools (Helium 10, Jungle Scout) are the primary way to get detailed competitive intelligence beyond the public bestseller lists.
Which card payment reader systems work best for events and festivals?
Members strongly favour dedicated hardware card readers over phone-only systems for event and festival use. A recent poll showed **Square** and **iZettle** as the most popular choices, with **Dojo** emerging as a strong alternative that performs well on cost per transaction and technical support. **Specific recommendations:** - **Square** — 12 votes in the poll; successfully deployed at large-scale events (60,000+ capacity) with Starlink connectivity; reliable handheld terminals. - **iZettle** — 11 votes; long track record (users report 10+ years of reliable event use); PayPal now remits takings next-day (previously 3 working days). - **Dojo** — Recommended strongly by members; won competitive tenders for major hospitality operators on cost per transaction, tech support, and kit quality; works with phone plus handheld hardware. - **Stripe** — 0 votes; not favoured for events despite broad awareness. - **SumUp** — 6 votes; less popular than top choices. **Key caveat:** Members strongly advise against asking staff to use their personal mobile devices as the sole payment system—devices can be dropped, lost, or stolen. Dedicated hardware is safer and more professional. For connectivity-dependent systems, consider redundancy with a data-only eSIM (e.g. **Airalo**) to cover signal failures.
What causes Instagram to remove or restrict alcohol brand content, and how can we appeal decisions?
Instagram's content moderation for alcohol brands is unpredictable and sometimes appears to flag content incorrectly. Members have reported videos and ads being removed or restricted for seemingly innocuous content—including distillery walktours that mention the word "gin" or "tipple," and product videos flagged as "banned content / guns / illegal" despite being legitimate alcohol marketing. **What triggers removal:** - Product videos and distillery content mentioning alcohol sales or product names - Ads that have run successfully for weeks, then suddenly restricted without clear reason - The system appears to use AI moderation that sometimes produces false positives **How to appeal:** - **Meta account manager route** — If you or your agency runs paid ads and has significant spend on Meta, contact your dedicated account manager. This is the most reliable escalation path. - **Business Manager** — Only trust removal notices if they appear in your Business Manager; many members report receiving fake restriction messages elsewhere. - Direct email appeals through the Instagram account's standard review process are reportedly difficult to navigate and often result in rejections. **Caveats:** - Without a Meta account manager relationship or ad spend, getting human review is very difficult. - The algorithm appears inconsistent—content may pass moderation initially then be flagged later, or similar content may trigger removal unpredictably. - Members joked that sufficient ad spend may improve outcomes, suggesting algorithmic bias toward paying advertisers.
Should shipping costs be built into the product price or charged separately at checkout for D2C sales?
Charge shipping separately at checkout rather than building it into the product price. This approach gives you flexibility to use free or discounted shipping as a marketing tool. **Practical tactics members use:** - Charge shipping at checkout (e.g. £3–£3.95) but offer **free standard shipping above a threshold** (typically £30–£50 depending on season). This incentivizes larger basket sizes. - Offer tiered shipping options: free standard, premium next-day for a fee (e.g. £3.95). - Use free shipping as a **value exchange** — offer it in exchange for email signups, which builds your list for future campaigns. - Use shipping discounts in **email campaigns and promotions** to drive repeat orders or clear stock. **Important margin caveat:** Members who've analysed this closely found that free-shipping thresholds can significantly erode margins post-logistics. One business assumed 78% of orders would fall below their £50 threshold but found only 60% did in practice — meaning they're effectively subsidizing 40% of orders' full pick/pack/shipping costs, bringing website margins closer to on/off-trade levels. You may need to set your threshold higher or accept lower margins on D2C to make the model work. Shipping is now "basically a must-have" for D2C, but budget carefully.
When should you enter San Francisco Spirits Awards versus Great Taste Awards for your spirits brand?
The choice depends on your primary goal and resources. **San Francisco Spirits Awards** is one of the most prestigious competitions and can help with distributor conversations and on-trade listings, especially in crowded categories where a gold or double gold signals quality. However, it's expensive to ship samples to the US and involves significantly more admin than UK alternatives. **Great Taste Awards** is better recognised by the UK public, cheaper, easier logistics, and provides a sticker you can put on your pack—making it particularly effective for building public trust and driving direct consumer sales. Members with retail experience noted that a 2–3 star award makes a measurable difference to product sales. The decision ultimately hinges on whether you're targeting distributor/on-trade credibility (San Francisco) or consumer-facing brand-building and sales lift (Great Taste). Both can be worth entering, but logistics and cost trade off against perceived audience and impact.
What cafe liqueur brands do members recommend as alternatives to Café Patrón?
Members recommend several cafe liqueur alternatives to Café Patrón, with strong consensus around a couple of options: - **Ojo De Dios Cafe Mezcal** — described as "pretty decent" and "fave" by multiple members, with one noting they brought back Café Patrón because the core range slowed and agave became available again. One member mentioned trying this at a Berlin event. - **Vivir Cafe** from **Vivir Tequila** — recommended as a Kindreds brand option to move people away from Patrón. - **Café Pistón** from **Piston Distillery** (https://www.pistondistillery.com/product/cafe-piston/) — described as "so so good" and flagged for "SessionSplits." One member also mentioned **Valpak** being recommended but noted they should do due diligence on options. (Note: this may be conflated with packaging supplier Valpak in the discussion, so verify separately.) Members treated Ojo De Dios and Vivir as the most accessible Kindreds-brand swaps from Patrón.
When sponsoring events with product stock, how do you ensure you receive quality content, photography and social media coverage in return?
Event sponsorships often result in minimal content delivery despite organisers' promises. Members recommend setting clear, measurable deliverables *before* sending stock, and verifying the event's capacity to deliver. **Pre-event agreements:** - Draft a formal sponsorship agreement (members suggest using ChatGPT to create a template) outlining specific content commitments - Request branding on all pre-event communications and verify this *before* sending stock - Confirm they will tag you in all social posts on the evening of the event **Specific content deliverables to request:** - A product-focused Instagram Reel (not generic story posts) created to your content brief and hitting your comms pillars, co-posted from their largest account post-event - A committed number of collaborative social media posts if they have a good following (competitions work well to generate new followers) - Post-event email campaign to all attendees with an intro offer for online orders **Reality check:** - Several members noted that random story posts with your product are "meaningless" and rarely worth the stock investment - One founder advised it's "almost never worth it unless you can send someone there to create for you, or there is someone specific going who you want a chance of getting a photo holding your product" - Members receive dozens of sponsorship requests weekly and seldom accept them - The safest approach: only sponsor if you can send your own team to create content, or have a specific strategic reason beyond content generation
What are the best review platforms for e-commerce, and which ones let you keep and export your reviews if you leave?
Review platform choice matters significantly for e-commerce—especially around data ownership. Many popular platforms lock you in or make you lose reviews if you cancel. **Platforms members recommend:** - **Reviews.io** — praised as "great" and members report positive experiences - **Junip** — described as "preferable pricewise" with no contract required; the team will help migrate reviews when you leave; members note "such nice guys" and loyalty to the platform - **Okendo** — flagged as a strong option **Platforms to approach with caution:** - **Trustpilot** — concerns raised that you lose all reviews if you stop using the platform; data ownership unclear - **Yotpo** — members warn it's expensive, locks you into a contract, and receives "a lot of bad press these days"; reported as overpriced with minimal added value; one member used it for a year with little help and poor syndication for replies across geographies - **Feefo** — flagged as one of the platforms that doesn't let you keep reviews if you leave **Critical consideration:** Always check the contract to confirm you own the reviews. Some platforms (Feefo, Trustpilot, Yotpo) don't allow you to take reviews with you if you leave. **Junip explicitly has no contract** and will help you migrate data.
What are cost-effective sources for UK spirits and RTD market data, and what current retail value data is available?
Members face the same challenge: IWSR and traditional market research are expensive. Here's what the community actually does: **DIY research options:** - Search trademark and brand-name availability yourself across UK, EU, and USA platforms (free but labour-intensive; USA particularly complex with overlapping trademarks). Note that trademark classes 33 (spirits) and 32 (beers) overlap, so check both. **Consultants and studios:** - **United Creatives** (Manchester) — suggested as a potential affordable data source - **Joe Bowker at Gorilla Studio** (Manchester) — recommended for market research support **Shared community data:** - Members have begun sharing internal spreadsheets (e.g. "United Kingdom_Spirits.xlsx" — 2023 data) within the group. Andy has shared a detailed spirits document; he was also checking for similar RTD-category-specific breakdowns. Ask directly in the group if members will share what they've compiled. **Caveat:** One member noted that ChatGPT and generic online searches don't account for international trademarks and may miss nuance. The community's own pooled data and consultant recommendations are more reliable than generic tools.
What aperitifs and ingredients pair well with sake for cocktail applications?
Members have found several aperitifs and ingredients that work well with sake in cocktail applications, particularly for Sake Spritzes and similar serves. **Aperitif pairings:** - **Dolin de Chambery dry vermouth** — recommended as a classic pairing with sake - **Cinzano vermouth extra dry** — noted for additional salinity that complements sake - **Everleaf Marine** — praised in combination with sake and soda; also works with a Seven Tails rinse - **Yuzu aperitifs or yuzu-based spirits** — **Akashi Tai Yuzushu** (from Marussia/The Whisky Exchange) is highly recommended for a Yuzu Sake Spritz **Other ingredient combinations:** - **Pina Colada base** — sake works well in this classic template - **Vodka** — if looking to increase ABV without competing flavours; suggested at 1:5 ratio with sake (gin is not recommended as it will overpower the sake) - **Everleaf Marine with soda** — simple, effective pairing - **Crossip Fresh Citrus** — works in combination with sake, sparkling tea, and shiso leaves - **Sparkling tea** — Saicho jasmine sparkling tea pairs well; can be enhanced with yuzu or lychee aperitifs - **Yuzu** — appears frequently as a complementary flavour - **Shiso leaves** — noted as a garnish/flavouring element **Supplier recommendations:** - **Kanpai London** — local sake brewery run by a husband-and-wife team; noted as supportive of small businesses - **Shima** — produces a sake spritz range and willing to collaborate Members advise trying sake first on its own (neat or with lemonade and ice) or in simple serves before building more complex cocktails, to understand its character.
How should we communicate duty rate increases to our trade customers?
Members recommend a straightforward, factual approach that avoids apologising and clearly attributes the increase to HMRC policy changes. **Messaging approach:** - **State HMRC changes clearly** — use language like "in line with the HMRC changes to current duty rates, please find enclosed updated pricing". This removes ambiguity and avoids an apologetic tone. - **Consider political framing** — some members have taken a firmer stance, opening with commentary on government policy (e.g. "Due to our governments incompetence..."), though this is more pointed than the neutral approach. **Timing tactics:** - **Set a clear last-order deadline at the current price** — Members recommend giving customers advance notice of when the price increase takes effect. One member specified "last delivery date at the current price will be 31st July" with a last-order date of 26th, giving customers roughly a week to decide whether to order ahead. - **Encourage advance ordering** — explicitly tell customers they're welcome to place orders before the increase kicks in, which can help smooth cash flow and shift volume forward. **Key takeaway:** Factual, HMRC-focused language cuts through, and a clear deadline with advance-ordering window gives customers agency and reduces pushback.
What should you know before exhibiting at BBC Good Food Show and other major trade shows—what sells, what's the ROI, and what are the logistics?
Trade show ROI varies significantly; several members reported mixed or poor returns. **BBC Good Food Show (Birmingham)** has worked well for some (profitable enough to justify the cost), but others found weak ROI due to high volumes of freebie-seekers and casual attendees rather than serious buyers. Members who exhibited reported that attendance by serious trade buyers drops significantly mid-October through Christmas as the industry focuses on Christmas trading. **What sells:** Members with Seedlip and Bounce! experience found success, though specific product recommendations weren't detailed in feedback shared. Hard seltzers and spirits were offered as samples. **Logistics and venue concerns:** - **Excel events** (including IDE—Industry Drinks Event) are frequently criticised for poor ROI relative to cost and notorious logistical disorganisation. Several members warned explicitly to "avoid" Excel events due to these issues. - Exhibiting typically requires samples for tastings, stand setup, and freight handling. **Forwarder contacts for inbound/outbound shipments:** - **Vidale Nordest** — used for Italy shipments, may work bidirectionally - **Alpi UK** — successfully used for Germany shipments - **Supply Chain 21** — Richard Jones (richard.jones@supplychain21.com) can assist with logistics - Avoid **Albatrans** (reportedly refusing Italy shipments) and **Hillebrand** (described as difficult to work with) **Caveat:** One exhibitor's 2019 experience was very negative; event quality and attendee composition appear highly variable. The consensus leans toward caution: unless you have a specific, targeted reason to exhibit, the cost often doesn't justify the outcome, especially at larger events like those at Excel.
Is paid magazine advertising effective for spirits brands?
Magazine advertising for spirits brands has **very limited ROI** and should not be relied upon to drive sales. The community consensus is clear: paid features in publications are expensive, unmeasurable, and deliver minimal commercial return. Key findings: - **Brand visibility only** — Magazine ads work as a prestige play ('as seen in GQ') rather than a sales driver. Members noted you might get a 'pretty good deal' but shouldn't expect any sales increase. - **Unmeasurable impact** — Unlike paid social or PPC, magazine advertising provides no trackable metrics or attribution. - **Never pay rate card** — If you do advertise, negotiate heavily; don't pay published rates. - **Better alternatives exist** — Members recommend spending the budget on **paid social or PPC** instead, where you can at least measure ROI and attribute conversions. **Bottom line:** Unless you have a specific brand-building goal (e.g., positioning in a premium tier) and accept there will be no measurable sales lift, members advise redirecting budget elsewhere.
What margins do independent pubs and on-trade retailers typically expect when purchasing spirits and drinks?
Independent pubs typically look for **60–75% margin**, with **70–72% gross profit** being the standard expectation. It's important to note that this margin is calculated relative to the per-serve price they sell at, not simply as a percentage of the purchase price (e.g., 10 serves × 6 = 60 vs. the purchase price of 20). Margin expectations vary by channel: - **Independent pubs**: 60–75% margin / 70–72% gross profit - **Wholesalers**: 10–25% depending on product type - **Off-trade**: 25–40% - **Promotional products**: Around 30%, potentially lower if positioned as a footfall driver Members have also asked about specific major retailers (DDC, Majestic) but concrete margin data for those chains was not shared in the discussion. The **Gross Profit app** (iOS) was recommended as a practical tool for calculating margins more easily.
How can UK alcohol brands legally use TikTok for marketing within UK promotion restrictions?
UK alcohol promotion rules prohibit direct advertising and promotion (including discount codes and calls-to-buy), but members have found ways to build brand awareness on TikTok by focusing on content that entertains, educates, or tells the brand story rather than pushing alcohol sales. **Key approaches members use:** - **Behind-the-scenes content** — Members report this format sits comfortably within regulations - **Educational and cocktail content** — Making cocktails and sharing information about the brand/business rather than promoting drinking - **Brand storytelling and entertainment** — Showing what your business is about, the people behind it, and entertaining content that builds awareness without directing viewers to purchase - **Pimentae** — Cited as a strong example of developing a brand on TikTok without heavy spending; members recommend reviewing their approach for inspiration - **Unexpected, differentiated creative** — One member achieved 2M+ views (5M across a series) with unconventional content: Ab Fab-style look-alikes on a pedalo, positioned as a "not celebrity endorsed" campaign. This approach worked precisely because it felt different from typical alcohol marketing and helped avoid algorithmic restrictions - **Trending formats adapted to your brand** — Rather than copying what others do, adapt trending formats in ways that align with your brand story or humour, which can help with algorithm reach **Caveats:** The line between "building awareness" and "promotion" is subjective. Members describe the distinction as no direct calls-to-buy, no discount codes, and no direction to purchase channels. Consider working with a creative agency familiar with alcohol social media to refine your approach.
Who are good website designers for drinks brands, and what tools or platforms work well?
Members recommend a mix of freelance designers with drinks-industry experience and DIY website builders depending on your needs. **Freelance designers with drinks background:** - **Simon at Greenbox** (simongreenbox@gmail.com) — South Africa-based, praised as easy to work with; has designed sites for El Rayo, Van Hunks, and Duppy - **Henry Davis** (https://henrydavis.design/) — specialises in web design and brand assets; recommended as "ace" by members - **Jonesinc.co.uk** — freelancer, former Creative Director at Hi-Spirits; described as "amazing" and experienced in the drinks industry (contact via DM) **DIY website builders:** - **Squarespace** — members report high-quality results, fast build times (one member completed a full site in 2 hours), and easy to use if you have design instincts. *Caveat:* basic e-commerce only; not recommended if you're planning serious DTC sales or need integration with other business tools. - **Carrd.co** — also flagged as a good option **Caveats:** If your site needs to function as a full e-commerce shop with integrations (inventory, accounting, etc.), Squarespace's limitations may force you toward a designer. Fiverr was mentioned but without endorsement. Members note that if you lack design skills or time, hiring a specialist (particularly someone with drinks-industry experience) is worth the investment.
Is it worth exhibiting at specialty food trade shows like Speciality Fine Food and Trade Only Tasting?
Members have found specialty food trade shows can deliver solid ROI, though suitability depends on brand type and attendee quality. **Speciality Fine Food** — One member reported positive results: high footfall, reasonable spend (3×2 shell scheme with printed boards, no hidden costs), and successful meetings with independent accounts, retailers, and wholesalers. They committed to exhibiting again. However, another member noted that gin brands made up ~15% of exhibitors, which dilutes relevance for spirits brands not in that category. **Trade Only Tasting** — Described as a newer event. Members have exhibited but expressed caution about whether the event attracts the right buyer profile to justify the cost; one member wanted to "see if they can get the right people through the door." No detailed performance data shared yet. **Key considerations:** Footfall volume alone doesn't guarantee value—check the mix of exhibitors and attendee types beforehand. A shell scheme with basic printed boards proved cost-effective. Members recommend treating event participation as relationship-building rather than expecting immediate sales.
How do retailers and competitors bid on your brand terms in Google PPC, and what impact does this have on D2C costs and sales?
Retailers, competitors, and even major platforms routinely bid on your brand search terms on Google, which drives up your PPC costs even if you don't immediately notice the impact. This is a real dynamic D2C founders need to monitor and manage. **The competitive landscape:** - Major retailers (e.g. **Noths**, **Holland and Barrett**), platforms (e.g. **Amazon**, **Google Shopping**), and direct competitors all bid on brand terms simultaneously - Even smaller competitors may bid aggressively on your flagship SKUs - The auction participants change weekly, so competitive pressure is fluid **How to monitor and respond:** - Use **Google Ads Competitive Impression Share** reporting to see who is bidding on your brand terms and what percentage of impressions they're capturing - Set up a **live dashboard** to track bidding activity by keyword, campaign, market, and objective—this lets you spot aggressive entrants quickly - Bid back or escalate spending when competitors become too aggressive (often automated) - Ask retailers not to compete on your flagship SKUs (members report this is "worth a shot," though success varies) **Profitability note:** - Members found that competitor bidding is often unprofitable for them (poor conversion), but it still raises your costs - An unconventional tactic: bid on US brand terms in the UK market if those brands aren't present locally—this captures brand-adjacent search volume at lower cost - Watch for competitors using other brands' names in ads without permission, which some members have encountered Automation is commonly used to manage this, so most founders delegate the daily monitoring and bid adjustments to specialists or tools.
What ROI and business outcomes should drinks producers expect from trade shows?
Trade show effectiveness varies significantly by event, company stage, and strategy. Rather than expecting immediate deal closure, successful members focus on sampling, brand awareness, and relationship-building as primary objectives. **Event-specific outcomes:** - **Trade Drinks Expo** — One member reported being "run off our feet all day" with "zero down time," indicating strong visitor traffic and engagement. - **Unnamed show (Shanky's Whip)** — Described as "not the busiest and probably not a good ROI" but valuable for making good industry contacts. **Recommended approach:** - Focus on product sampling and getting "liquid on lips" rather than closing deals at the event itself. One member estimated this strategy would yield 5–10 listings from conversations, with impact driven by word-of-mouth and brand awareness. - Use the show to build relationships with potential stockists and industry peers; formal orders often follow post-event. - Expect networking value beyond direct sales, particularly for younger or emerging brands. **Caveats:** - Shell scheme stands create a poor atmosphere and may indicate a lower-quality event; consider stand placement and event reputation carefully. - ROI depends heavily on the specific show and your target buyer base—not all trade shows are equally productive. - Budget for ongoing engagement (coffee, refreshments) throughout the day.
Is it worth paying for marketing partnerships and inclusion in materials with major retail platforms like Matthew Clark?
Members' consensus is clear: **skip paid retail media partnerships and reinvest elsewhere**. Multiple members advised against it, with the reasoning that budget is better spent on direct relationship-building. - **Matthew Clark marketing rate cards** — Not recommended. Members consistently advised declining paid placement and marketing material inclusion. - **Build relationships with account managers instead** — The preferred approach. Members suggested direct investment in managing and nurturing your contacts within the distributor rather than paying for promotional placements. **Caveat:** One member has specific experience and learnings from having done this before and is willing to share details directly (DM basis). If you're seriously considering it, ask them—but the general sentiment is that the ROI doesn't justify the cost.
What percentage of spirits are sold on promotion in UK supermarkets?
Members report that the proportion of spirits sold on promotion in UK supermarkets varies significantly by category and brand, but typically ranges between 70–80% of volume. **Key benchmarks from member experience:** - **70/30 split** (70% on promotion, 30% at full price) is cited as a rough industry guide - **80/20 split** reported by some members in their own experience - **Category-dependent variation**: Some categories spike to 80%+ on promotion - **Brand examples**: Baileys is approximately 83% sold on promotion (often funded by supermarkets themselves as a Christmas footfall driver), while Guinness (also Diageo-owned) is closer to 40% on promotion despite being in a similar category **Context:** Members note that the variation reflects how different brands are used strategically by retailers—premium spirits with less direct competition may have lower promotional penetration, while brands serving as footfall drivers (particularly seasonally) are promoted more heavily.
What are the real costs and ROI of sponsoring or exhibiting at major UK festivals and events?
Festival and event sponsorships carry significant upfront costs with uncertain returns. Members report **sponsorship fees starting around £26k**, though the actual ROI depends heavily on your distribution strength and the event's audience fit. **Key findings from member experience:** - **National retail listings matter** — £26k sponsorships work best if you already have national distribution; without it, the investment is harder to justify - **Bar takings rarely accrue to sponsors** — even when you secure a bar presence, the venue typically controls the revenue and recharge fees can be substantial - **Negotiating down is expected** — members report that advertised prices are rarely paid; those who participate typically secure discounts. It's described as "a buyers market for events this year" - **Poor historical ROI** — one member supported a hard seltzer brand at a major festival a couple of years ago with minimal return; that brand (and many others) seem to rotate sponsors annually, suggesting sponsorship economics don't stack up for most - **Competition from established players** — major festivals often feature bars run by established names (e.g. celebrity-backed venues) that can serve late and dominate footfall, making it harder for sponsor brands to drive meaningful sales - **Pooled sponsorships could help** — members mused that if multiple Kindred members co-sponsored an event together, costs would be more affordable per participant **Caveats:** These costs and poor ROI appear specific to "big ticket" festivals. Members did not discuss ROI for smaller, more niche events or sponsorships with better audience alignment.
How should we price in response to rising input costs, and what increases are other UK drinks brands implementing?
Members are actively passing cost increases to both trade and D2C channels to protect margins ahead of potential exits. This is viewed as necessary despite concerns about losing accounts. **Observed pricing moves:** - Ex-cellar increases of **3–5%** across multiple SKUs are common among smaller brands - Major producers (e.g. Molson Coors with Estrella) have implemented increases closer to **10%** - One member implemented their first increase in 4 years; another in 2 years - Some brands (e.g. Lucky Saint) have *reduced* prices, signalling different strategic positioning **Community consensus:** - Protecting margins is critical if you want a viable exit - Trade accounts expect increases and understand the cost environment (fuel, energy, ingredients all up) - Small brands needn't worry about losing hard-fought accounts over reasonable increases—customers know increases are coming industry-wide - **First increases after multi-year holds are more defensible** than frequent small hikes **Caveat:** One member flagged concern about bargaining power as a smaller brand, but the group consensus was that this worry is usually unfounded in the current cost environment.
What payment processing options and fees should we consider for ecommerce in the drinks industry?
Members report a range of payment processing solutions with varying fee structures depending on your platform and customer type. **Stripe** — Standard option charging 1.4% transaction fees. **Revolut Pay** — Members report it as a solid option with competitive rates. Key caveat: while consumer card transactions are charged at 1%, commercial/business cards incur a higher 2.8% fee. This is a significant consideration if your revenue mix includes B2B sales. Members noted this was a surprise discovery after initial sign-up. Revolut also offers cashback incentives (e.g. £20 on purchases) when using RevPay alongside a Revolut business account. **Shopify Payments** — If using Shopify as your platform, the fees vary by plan tier: Basic plan = 2%, Shopify = 1%, Advanced = 0.5%, Shopify Plus = 0.15%. Shopify adds additional third-party fees if you use payment providers other than Shopify Payments. **Caveat:** Members operating B2B models should carefully evaluate Revolut's commercial card fees (2.8%), as this significantly erodes the headline 1% consumer rate advantage if a substantial portion of your revenue comes from business customers rather than direct-to-consumer sales.