Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
Which trade shows deliver the best ROI for drinks brands: ProWein, Sial, Anuga, Berlin Cocktails, and Foodies Festivals?
ProWein has proven productive for members—one member noted strong returns from Seven Tails. Berlin Cocktails (BCB) is worth attending for meetings and networking with international distributors, but opinions on exhibiting vary: one member has maintained a stand since 2018 with great returns, while others found it overpriced, disorganised, and difficult to stand out alone. The show is most valuable for year-round partner reviews, meeting new distributors across multiple countries, and accessing industry networking events—less valuable if pursuing German domestic distribution. A collaborative Kindred stand was suggested as a way to solve visibility issues and create buzz. Foodies Festivals received consistently negative feedback on ROI. Members described them as expensive to exhibit at with no guaranteed footfall, attracting crowds primarily interested in free samples rather than brand engagement. One member lost money at Bristol Foodies (2023) but profited at Exeter thanks to higher-spending attendees and good weather. The consensus is to be highly selective, negotiate pitch fees aggressively, and avoid unless you can secure a discounted late-minute spot or identify a specific festival with proven higher-quality footfall in your category.
How should wholesalers be charged for delivery, and what's the best approach to implementing price increases to wholesale partners?
Members emphasize two key principles: delivery should always be included in the wholesale price (never charged separately to the wholesaler), and price increases should be implemented annually rather than ad-hoc to avoid larger, more damaging jumps later. **Delivery pricing:** - Always quote a delivered wholesale price—build your average delivery cost into the per-unit pricing rather than invoicing separately - Use minimum order quantities (MOQ) as a lever: if orders fall below a certain threshold (e.g., less than a case or below pallet quantities), you can introduce an additional delivery fee to protect margin - Some regional or friendly wholesalers may even collect from you, but this should never be assumed **Price increase strategy:** - Implement annual increases as standard practice, even if COGS haven't moved significantly. Members stressed this builds the habit with wholesalers, who expect it and typically request pay rises themselves annually - Typical increases range from 3–12% depending on circumstances; members who delayed increases for 5 years faced the risk of needing a large catch-up adjustment later - Provide 3 months' notice before implementation (typically end of September for January implementation) - Use the phrase "Price Movement" rather than "price increase"—it's more palatable - Always provide clear rationale: cover both macro issues (inflation, duty, COGS) and micro issues (brand positioning, retail price barriers) - Consider your brand's market position and the impact on retail shelf price; be aware of psychological price barriers (e.g., £20, £25, £30 for spirits) - Don't over-communicate; treat increases as routine market adjustment, not a major negotiation **Initial wholesale pricing:** When setting up direct-to-hotel or direct wholesale arrangements, build in a "wholesale buffer margin" (estimated at 15% or £5–6 per case) to protect yourself if the wholesaler later needs to source through a distributor. Wholesalers typically expect 50% of retail selling price as gross profit.
What are the key regulatory, structural and practical challenges when launching spirits into the US market, and how should brands approach state-by-state expansion?
The US spirits market operates as a 50-state regulatory maze with no direct-to-consumer sales permitted. Members emphasize treating each state as a separate country—expansion is slow, expensive, and requires strategic selectivity rather than pursuing all states immediately. **Market structure and regulatory framework:** - The US operates a mandatory three-tier system: supplier/importer → distributor → retailer. Direct sales to consumers are not permitted in most states. - No single US-wide license exists; each state has its own regulatory requirements and approval process. **Market entry routes:** - **Working with an importer** — Several members use importers who then represent the brand to distributors across multiple states. This adds a middleman but significantly reduces complexity compared to managing 50 separate relationships directly. - **Distributor relationships** — Members are actively seeking direct relationships with US distributors to understand state-specific requirements and market conditions. **Expansion strategy:** - **Selective state focus is more effective than rapid 50-state expansion** — Members report that concentrating on 5–9 strategically chosen states yields better results than attempting to launch everywhere simultaneously. One member noted that brandy sales patterns vary dramatically by state (e.g., performing differently in Hawaii vs. Wisconsin), so product fit matters. - **Timeline expectations** — One brand took 3 years to establish a presence in just 2 states before accelerating to 17 states in one year and tracking toward 50 by year-end. Another notes the process "takes time and money" and involves "painful learnings." - **Cost** — Members have invested significant capital over multiple years ("stupid money" was mentioned), so budgeting for a multi-year, expensive rollout is essential. **Caveats:** - There is no one-size-fits-all approach; the right number of states to launch in depends on the specific product, brand positioning, and available budget. Focus and depth in fewer states may outperform shallow distribution across many.
What are the major shifts in wholesale distributor performance and market dynamics in the UK drinks trade during 2024?
Members are observing significant volume migrations between distributors, with clear winners and losers emerging across the market. **Key volume gainers:** **Drinks Club**, **Master of Malt Trade**, **Champers**, **Dayla**, **Venus**, **LWC**, and **Amathus** are all winning substantial business from competitors. **Volume losers:** **Specialty**, **MC (Matthew Clark)**, and **Enotria** are experiencing notable customer defections. The primary drivers appear to be: - **Venus (backed by Booker/Tesco)** is being particularly aggressive, especially in the North West, leveraging tiny margins and poaching established staff (including Dave Lomas from Hammonds of Knutsford and Tom Hurst). They are flexing financial muscle from parent company resources and expanding territory by territory. - **LWC** is aggressively targeting MC accounts while maintaining focus on sustainable, quality business. - **Drinks Club** is winning many Enotria accounts. - **MC** has extended ranges for certain groups (e.g. Alchemist), which is hurting Specialty on higher-end lines and affecting the traditional division of business. - **Amathus** in London is growing at pace with aggressive pricing; numerous London accounts switched to them in late 2024. - **Pricing** does not appear to be the primary driver—sell-out prices remain consistent across distributors, so list price differentials are not the main factor. **Caveats:** Personnel changes (key advocates, rep changes) can affect volumes but appear secondary to these broader strategic moves. The shifts are large-scale rather than driven by individual staffing changes. Venus's aggressive expansion may remain concentrated in northern territories and may not immediately impact London/SE businesses.
Who are the key retail buyers and contacts to target for UK drinks listings, and how responsive are they?
Finding and contacting major UK retail buyers is challenging—many are notoriously unresponsive to outreach. Members have identified several buyers worth targeting, though persistence and alternative contact methods may be needed. **Key contacts members have named:** - **Dawn Davies** — Whisky Exchange / Specialty Drinks - **Nick Bell** — Harvey Nichols - **Nick Flemming** — Harrods - **John Vine** — Waitrose - **Chris Appleby** — Enoteca (reported as good to deal with) - **Alice Fishman** — Previously assistant buyer at Wholefoods (though members report she is unresponsive) **Caveats and warnings:** - Many major retail buyers are "literally uncontactable" and do not respond to email outreach (members reported sending multiple emails with no reply). - Waitrose and Wholefoods buyers in particular have been flagged as difficult to reach; one member joked about extreme persistence tactics. - The group expressed frustration that some buyers operate as if "they wouldn't survive in the brutal world of entrepreneurship." - Chris Appleby at Enoteca is one of the few explicitly noted as responsive and good to deal with, suggesting he may be an easier entry point. Members did not provide specific listing requirements, onboarding processes, or minimum order thresholds in the excerpts.
How much commercial return do spirits competition awards (e.g., London Spirits, IWSC) actually deliver—do they drive sales conversations or are they mainly for marketing collateral?
Members' experience suggests awards have **limited direct sales impact** but can be useful for **marketing and distribution leverage** if deployed strategically. **Direct commercial conversations:** The blind judging format means judges don't see who made the product, so don't expect to network with them or generate sales leads during the competition itself. Several members entered competitions and saw no follow-up commercial interest afterwards, despite winning medals. **Marketing and retailer credibility:** Where awards work is as a **sticker for retailers** and **credentials for distributors**—if you're trying to convince buyers that your product is credible, a gold or silver from a recognised body helps. One member noted that winning "same or better than bigger-well-established brands" helps build consumer trust and can be leveraged in marketing. **Quality concerns:** Members flagged **significant issues with tasting notes accuracy**—multiple people reported receiving shelf-wobblers or labels with incorrect botanical descriptions that don't match the spirit. One member received notes crediting a botanical not in their gin. This raises questions about judging rigor, particularly at **IWSC** (which had similar accuracy problems reported). **International variation:** Awards carry different weight by channel and geography. One member noted their non-alcoholic brand won double golds in San Francisco but got very different results in New York with the same body—so the same award may mean different things to different markets. **Frequency:** Members suggest entering **once every 2–3 years** rather than repeatedly, unless you believe a previous result was unfair. One entry per year is the lower end; entering multiple times annually is usually not cost-effective unless you have a specific channel goal and a new product to test. **The caveat:** To get actual ROI, you need to know **how to leverage the award for your specific channel**—it's not automatic. Simply winning a gold from IWSC may not drive sales unless you actively use it in distributor pitches or retailer negotiations. Also watch for scams in award bodies (one member noted some are legitimate, others not)—vet before paying entry fees.
How do we get our spirits stocked in major UK retailers and distribution platforms?
Members report that pitching to major retailers requires identifying the right buyer contact and understanding their submission windows. For **Specialty Drinks** (spirits distributor), members recommend contacting **Dawn Davies** (dawn@specialitydrinks.com), the Spirits buyer. For **Spirit Kiosk** / **Spirits Beacon** (run by Enotria's digital team since 2020), reach out to **Andrew Trafford** or **Emily Collins** on the buying team; note that the platform's marketing contact is **Richard Weaver** or **Lauren Burfield**. For **Whole Foods UK**, be aware their submission schedule is complex with multiple internal and external deadlines; one member reported they are not running a full range review in the current year, only planning Jan-to-Jan. Members also mention **Nectar** (the loyalty programme) as a listing opportunity, where key accounts include **Cirrus Inns** and **Fullers pubs** (though Cirrus is now under Liberation, requiring direct supply). General advice: identify decision-makers early, understand each retailer's calendar windows, and use the community network to secure warm introductions. One member offered to discuss their recent Tesco pitch experience directly.
What are the typical listing fees charged by major UK spirit wholesalers, and how do they work?
Major UK wholesalers typically charge **£500 per depot** as a one-off listing fee, though this is negotiable. With approximately 9 depots across the UK network (York, Fosse, Birmingham, Orbital West, Runcorn, Southampton, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Bedford/Crayford), you should expect around **£4,500–£5,000 total per SKU** to achieve widespread distribution. **Key points from community experience:** - The fee is a **one-off charge**, not annual, though negotiation success varies considerably between members - Members have paid **£5,000 per SKU** in past listings - The depot network includes approximately 9 locations: York, Fosse, Birmingham, Orbital West, Runcorn, Southampton, Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Bedford/Crayford - **Matthew Clarke** is noted as an alternative route for extended range listings (through Master of Malt), though listing doesn't guarantee wide availability—you may pay the fee but find the product only accessible to direct customers - **Master of Malt** has historically listed products readily but delisting for poor sales appears uncommon, even for smaller suppliers moving 20k+ per year **Caveats:** Getting listed is only half the battle; availability at individual depots can vary significantly even after you've paid the listing fee. Negotiation on fees is possible but outcomes differ between suppliers.
What are the recommended logistics operators and suppliers for international distribution routes?
Members have shared contacts and recommendations for specific international logistics and supplier needs, though availability varies by route and partner capacity. **Logistics & Distribution:** - **FWS** — contact Luke Brown (member of group); handles distribution logistics - **PRODEX** — member reached out for wine freight from Provence to Greece (2 pallets) - **Kukla** — unable to service Provence-to-Greece route; check before committing - For **Abu Dhabi exports**, members indicated interest but no specific operator was named in discussions - For **Mexico**, **India**, and **Nigeria** routes — members asked for recommendations but no confirmed operators were provided in the excerpts **Supplier & Production Partners:** - **Bone Idyll** (contact: sam@boneidyll.co.uk) — offers both liquid production and small can runs (125ml); confirmed capacity for 2000+ cans for cocktails - **Printed Cup Company** (printedcupcompany.com) — fast turnaround (within a month) for custom cup production - **freckl.** and **noissue** — recommended for custom printed packing tape with low MOQs **Caveats:** Several routes (Mexico, India, Nigeria, Abu Dhabi) had members seeking contacts but receiving no substantive recommendations, suggesting these may be underserved within the community network. The Provence-to-Greece shipment was still in-progress at the time of discussion, so capacity confirmation needed.
What is the cost of entry and key strategy for distributing spirits in the US market, and what should new entrants know about working with distributors?
US market entry requires significant upfront investment and hands-on brand representation—distributors will not actively sell your brand for you. Members emphasise that capital and dedicated personnel are essential; stock without active support will not turn. **Key takeaways:** - **Major retail channels** – Members report presence in Total Wine & More (confirmed) and Bevmo (in progress for some), but entry costs and terms vary. Natural grocery channels are notably expensive and require significant investment in sampling and TPRs (trade promotion resources). - **Brand representation is mandatory** – Do not rely on distributors to push your product; you must provide active brand support and sales resource in-market. - **Regional distributors** – Members have experience with Southern/RNDC (requesting contact and feedback); others are exploring additional distributor partners. - **Capital requirements are substantial** – Multiple members stressed that "it takes money to move" and that eye-watering costs are associated with US market entry. - **In-market support** – Happy to connect with members who have recent US launch experience for detailed learnings and strategy. **Caveats:** The excerpts confirm the challenge but do not provide specific cost figures, retail placement timelines, or detailed channel-by-channel breakdowns. Members are keen to share direct experience via DM.
What are the main distribution channels and partners that Mitchells & Butlers use to stock drinks products?
Mitchells & Butlers primarily use two routes to market: - **Tradeteam** — the main direct RTM channel. If M&B want to list you, they will typically set you up with Tradeteam directly as part of the process. - **Bibendum** — historically supplied M&B before Tradeteam became standard, though this may be less current. Worth exploring if direct routes aren't available. Members note that M&B sometimes proactively reach out to brands asking what RTMs they use, which can be a positive sign of interest. However, be prepared for slow response times and limited visibility into orders—one member joked the channel can feel like "shouting into the void." Getting listed is valuable but requires patience and clear communication through the established channels.
What is the process for getting listed with major UK retail chains like Majestic, Waitrose, and Ocado?
Getting listed with major UK retailers requires a multi-step approach combining direct contact with buyers and grassroots validation. **Key contacts and routes:** - **Majestic** — Direct buyer contact: jacob.biggs@majestic.co.uk (note: neither this contact nor john.storm@majestic.co.uk are consistently responsive) - **Waitrose and Ocado** — Community members have experience but were seeking to share learnings on specific routing; no single universal contact shared - **Mitchells & Butlers venues** — Use **Tradeteam** as their distributor (partly direct access) **Recommended tactic:** Members report success by getting a dozen individual store managers to taste the product and provide feedback, then following this up with the central buying team. This grassroots validation appears to carry weight in conversations with buyers. **Caveats:** Direct buyer emails are often unresponsive; the grassroots store-level feedback loop is the more reliable entry point. Getting listed is challenging and retention is not guaranteed—some community members have been listed for many years and subsequently delisted.
What are the best logistics and fulfilment options for getting products onto fast-delivery platforms like Getir, Zapp, and Weezy?
Members are actively listing on multiple quick-commerce platforms with varying success. Direct placement on **Getir** is generating strong volume for at least one member. **Zapp** and **Weezy** are also available, though some members note these platforms may source through traditional wholesalers like **Matthew Clark** rather than direct relationships, making volume harder to track. Members recommend treating these as complementary channels rather than relying on a single platform. **Key options members are using:** - **Getir** — direct listing generating "amazing volume" according to members - **Zapp** — available but may route through **Matthew Clark** - **Weezy** — similar to Zapp; wholesaler-mediated ordering - **Gorillas** and **Crisp** — European alternatives (members have experience in the Netherlands) **Next steps:** Members with experience across all major platforms suggest scheduling group calls to discuss detailed routes to market and specific placement strategies. Canned products appear to be the format gaining traction on these platforms.
Do you need to notify AWRS when changing distribution partners or production partners?
The community's experience suggests notification requirements differ by partner type. - **Production partner changes** — Members recommend notifying AWRS when you change production partners, as this is considered a material change to your operation. - **Distribution partner changes** — The consensus is that you likely don't need to notify AWRS when switching distributors (at least one member didn't and had no issues), though one member suggested it's "worth notifying distributor change at the same time just in case" to cover yourself. **Caveat:** This is based on members' practical experience rather than formal confirmation. For absolute certainty on AWRS requirements, confirming directly with AWRS would be prudent, especially for production changes which are more likely to require notification.
What are typical MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) requirements for direct distribution to major UK depots like LWC?
Based on member experience, direct depot MOQs are relatively modest and typically non-negotiable: - **LWC (Lay & Wheeler)** — standard MOQ is 10 cases direct to depot. Members report that attempting to negotiate this upward is difficult and unsuccessful. - **Master of Malt** — requires negotiation directly with the supplier; they typically expect 27–30% margin on trade pricing. Members note that while these minimums are achievable for most brands, trying to push for lower thresholds is unlikely to succeed. The depot model works best if you can meet their baseline requirements consistently.
What are the best trade shows for breaking into travel retail distribution?
Travel retail trade shows are highly competitive and membership-gated, so entry and ROI are challenging. **TFWA Cannes** — The main player in the space, but typically requires you to already have duty-free presence to secure a stand. Getting a stand is "incredibly hard"; most smaller brands without existing distribution attend unofficially and conduct meetings at cafés along the seafront instead. **Casual Dining Show** — Members reported mixed results. 2019 was strong; 2021 was described as "pretty awful." One member managed to secure Hall and Woodhouse as a lead (their first and only qualified lead from the show), suggesting the rest were time-wasters. Consensus: "a bit of a lottery like most trade shows." **Caveats:** Travel retail shows are notoriously difficult for smaller brands to break into. Unless you already have duty-free distribution, expect to work the perimeter rather than secure formal exhibitor space. Lead quality can be poor, so budget accordingly and don't rely on a single show for channel entry.
What UK warehouse and logistics providers are recommended for pallet/case delivery and non-alcoholic drinks products going into the trade?
Members recommend a mix of specialist logistics providers depending on product type and volume. For non-alcoholic drinks (mixers, softs) entering the trade, **Harrison Solway** is the go-to recommendation; they handle anything over a pallet and deliver to major drinks wholesalers and retailers. For larger volumes, members report that Seedlip uses **LCB**, which handles big shipments, with **Future Pro** handling smaller deliveries. **Seabrook** (based in Barking, near LCB) is also noted as popular in the London area for pallet and case work. For 3PL and storage solutions, **Copper Beech Trading** (near the M6 in a rural location but ~10 minutes to motorway access) offers dry goods storage and is described as reasonably priced. Members also recommend **Hound** as a newer option that understands specific fulfillment needs and came recommended with strong proposals. **GetYards** was mentioned as an alternative warehouse option. Members suggest checking directly with these providers about their specific coverage of main drinks wholesalers and retailers, as capabilities vary.
What are the practical challenges and steps for getting a product listing with Marstons, especially after their Carlsberg merger?
Members report significant friction in securing Marstons listings, particularly since the Carlsberg merger. The core problem is a circular referral process with no clear owner. **The Marstons/CUK runaround:** Members describe being bounced between Marstons and Carlsberg UK (CUK)—Marstons directs you to CUK to handle the listing request, while CUK says Marstons needs to request the product. This creates a stalled process where neither party takes responsibility, and getting movement has proven difficult over months or years. **Local pub group angle:** One member noted that if your local pub group is tied to Marstons, you cannot get shelf space without a formal listing. Asking the pub group directly to connect you with their Marstons contact may help, but this depends on the relationship. **Contact recommendation:** Members mention **Helen at Hells Belles** as a useful contact for navigating this process, though specific details on her role were not provided in the discussion. **Caveats:** The post-Carlsberg merger appears to have made the process *worse*, not better. Multiple members have been stuck in the circular loop for "a couple of years" with no resolution. There is no clear workaround reported—persistence and a direct contact seem to be the only tactics mentioned.
Which drinks sales agencies specialize in sales-focused services rather than full distribution?
Members recommend several sales agencies that focus on sales representation rather than full distribution services: - **Amber Beverage** — recommended by members - **ESL** — recommended as a sales agency option - **E2M** — recommended by members - **TT Liquor** — members have contacts available; inquire within the group - **Nightcap Brands** — described as highly effective, with high recommendations from multiple members. One member noted they work with Nightcap's team and reported significant improvements to on-trade performance and exciting off-trade listings in the pipeline Members praised Nightcap Brands particularly for transforming on-trade presence and generating new distribution opportunities.
What are the costs and procedures for exporting spirits from the UK to Monaco when only registered in the UK?
Exporting to Monaco from a UK-only registration is possible but expensive and complex. Members strongly recommend using a distributor or logistics consultant rather than attempting direct export. **Recommended contacts and options:** - **MPR** — can handle the export route from the UK and is noted as more cost-effective than alternatives - **La Rue** — recommended as a consulting option for Monaco export logistics - **Krupa consulting** — another consulting firm members suggested for this route **Cost expectations:** Monaco export logistics are significantly expensive. Members reported costs ranging from $5,000–$30,000 per month depending on the operation, with one member noting they had paid $10,000–$5,000 per month. Members warned "way too expensive" for direct handling and "do not recommend" attempting this without professional help. **Caveat:** The community consensus was strongly against attempting Monaco export without professional support, particularly for small shipments (e.g., 20 cases). Using a licensed distributor or consultant is the standard approach.
What are the impacts of Diageo's new wholesale policy requiring 30 designated wholesalers and £2m purchase thresholds for direct supply?
Diageo has implemented restrictive new wholesale rules that significantly reshape how independent retailers and smaller operators can access their products. The policy cuts direct supply access to only 30 approved wholesalers and requires cash-and-carry (C&C) customers to reach £2m in annual purchases (invoice value excluding VAT) to qualify for direct supply. **Key impacts:** - **Around 40 retailers lose direct access** — approximately 40 smaller wholesalers previously supplied directly by Diageo now must purchase Diageo products indirectly, often from their competitors, creating a significant market disruption and widespread upset in the trade. - **High purchase threshold barriers** — The £2m purchase requirement effectively excludes smaller independent retailers and venues from direct supply, forcing them into indirect channels. - **Concentration of power** — The policy limits distribution to only 30 designated wholesalers, reducing competition and potentially increasing margins across the supply chain. **Market observations:** Members noted this creates "a lot of upset in the trade" and flagged potential consequences: some traders are positioning themselves to exploit the disruption, and there's speculation that UK stock availability changes could create arbitrage opportunities at international borders. However, members also recognised potential opportunities emerging from the wholesale space upheaval for new entrants and alternative routes to market. **Note:** The community discussion did not provide a detailed list of the 40 affected wholesalers or the 30 approved ones.
What should we negotiate in exclusive distribution agreements for Asian markets, and what provisions protect us?
Exclusive distribution agreements for Asian countries are common, but members strongly advise against signing unconditional long-term exclusivity without protections. Here's what the community recommends: **Key negotiation points:** - **Minimum performance clauses** — Build in lower performance thresholds than your agreed market plan; if the distributor doesn't hit these, you retain flexibility. - **Minimum order volumes and marketing spend** — Tie exclusivity to concrete commitments. If they hit agreed numbers, exclusivity makes sense; if not, let the best partner win. - **Break-out provisions** — Do not accept a 5-year exclusive deal with no exit clause. Always negotiate a way out if targets aren't met. - **Market-specific caution** — For large markets like China, members warn against granting exclusivity to a single distributor, as the market is too large for one partner to serve effectively. **Caveats:** - Members were unanimous in cautioning against unconditional exclusivity. One noted: "I would be very cautious signing anything for any market with unconditional exclusivity." - The community consensus is that tied performance goals create healthy competition and protect your interests better than blanket exclusivity. - Consider whether you genuinely expect substantial growth in that specific country over the 5-year term before committing.
What is the experience of using Tipple as an alcohol distribution platform, and should we consider it?
Members have mixed and cautious experiences with Tipple as a distribution platform. **Tipple** offers good margins and reliable P&P to European markets, making it viable if you have sufficient demand. However, several significant concerns emerged: - **Operational challenges**: One member reported it consumed significant time and ultimately didn't work out due to poor setup and setup communication from Tipple's side; another found similar issues and advised caution, particularly early on. - **Distributor conflicts**: If you already have existing distributors in your market, Tipple can create complications and may not be worth pursuing. - **Compliance and liability concerns**: Members raised serious worries about whether taxes and duties are being paid correctly under local laws, and the risk that non-compliance could expose you legally. - **Alternative consideration**: Some members mentioned **BeMakers** as a more established alternative with a similar model (with reference to Arbikie using it), though feedback on BeMakers was also negative ("Not great at all"). **Caveats**: Tipple may have improved since some of these experiences. While Diageo is rumoured to use them, this is unconfirmed. The main risks centre on operational execution, legal/tax compliance, and potential conflicts with your existing distribution network. Members recommend speaking directly with those who have tried it before committing.
Which cash and carry distributors work well for premium spirits brands, and what volumes can you realistically achieve?
Members recommend working with major cash and carry distributors, though volume potential depends heavily on product positioning and support. **Key distributors:** - **Millennium** — straightforward business; volume potential improves with proactive promotional support - **Imperial** — similar to Millennium; decent volumes available for brands that back their brochure promotions - **Booker** — also recommended as a solid option **Volume and positioning:** Members report that cash and carries are price-sensitive markets dominated by mainstream brands. Premium brands typically see modest but consistent volumes by branching into on-trade or supplying independent premium bottle-shops, rather than competing on volume alone in the cash and carry channel itself. **Strategy:** If you support their promotional brochures and marketing activity, you can pick up good volumes. The key is active partnership rather than passive listing.
What are the margins and payment terms offered by major drinks distribution partners like CLF and Tree of Life?
Members who work with major drinks distributors report consistently long payment terms but variable margins depending on the retail accounts supplied. **CLF** — Members using CLF report 90-day payment terms. One member noted CLF can be "expensive on the marketing front." Another member found their margins "extremely high" and decided not to proceed, though noted that negotiation on terms may be possible. CLF works well for supplying specific retailers like Planet Organic, where margins are described as "working for now." One member (Punchy) works with CLF and considers them "okay" overall. **Tree of Life** — Limited feedback in community; one member expressed interest but no direct user testimonials were shared. **Payment terms caveat** — 90-day payment terms appear standard across distributors for retail supply routes. Members should factor this into cash flow planning when evaluating distributor partnerships.
What are the practical methods for shipping sample bottles to US distributors given customs restrictions?
Members have identified two main approaches, both working around significant US customs friction: **Hand-carry in luggage** — The most reliable and cost-effective method. Members report easily fitting 8–12 bottles in a suitcase with no trouble at the border to date. Multiple members confirmed this as the quickest, lowest-risk option, and notably the most enjoyable. **Royal Mail (UK domestic sending)** — Technically possible for 1–3 bottles, but requires declaring contents as non-alcoholic rather than their true nature (members acknowledge this amounts to misrepresentation). When used, bottles have arrived within ~5 days. However, several members report recent customs issues and bottles being sent back over the past 6 months, suggesting increased US customs scrutiny. **Caveat:** US customs enforcement appears to be tightening. Members note they've had shipments returned recently and describe the regulatory environment as increasingly difficult. The hand-carry method remains the only consistently endorsed workaround.
What are the key considerations when deciding whether to use a distributor, and how should founders handle distributor demands for listing fees?
Members report significant frustration with distributor listing fees and upfront demands, which can substantially impact on-trade pricing and margins. **Core issue:** Distributors increasingly demand substantial upfront payments (described as €20k+ in one European case) before committing to stock your product, creating a barrier for smaller brands and affecting the pricing you can offer to on-trade venues. **Recommended approach to listing fee demands:** - **Push back firmly.** Members recommend declining unreasonable demands rather than capitulating. One founder's advice: "Tell them to have a lovely sleep in their bed." - **Understand the margin structure.** A member shared a detailed breakdown of costs and margins across distributors, wholesalers, and retailers (linked in the discussion), which helps founders see where the pressure points are and negotiate from an informed position. - **Be aware of how distributor margins compress your pricing.** The distribution chain analysis shows how each layer (distributor → wholesaler → retailer) takes a cut, ultimately affecting the price available to the on-trade and your unit economics. **Context:** Several members reported being asked for substantial fees or free stock with poor results, describing it as "being mugged for the Christmas party." The consensus is that if a distributor won't commit without large upfront payments, their enthusiasm for selling your product is questionable, and you may be better served exploring direct-to-trade or alternative routes.
What are the typical costs, operating procedures, and working capital implications of using Tortuga for logistics and distribution?
Tortuga is a logistics and distribution operator (part of Mangrove Brands, owned by GBH) that handles order processing, invoicing, credit control, and logistics for drinks brands. They operate their own WOWGR and AWRS independently. **How it works:** - **Charges a monthly fee with no margin taken** — you break even once you've sold enough cases to cover the fee; beyond that is profit. - **Relatively cost-effective** — roughly half the cost of employing internal operations staff to manage orders, logistics, and invoicing (saves 2–3 job roles). - **Pre-established retail & wholesale accounts** — they have open accounts with most major wholesalers and retailers, reducing barriers to getting new products listed and saving time on account setup. - **Shared delivery costs** — brands benefit from consolidated logistics with other Tortuga clients. - **Services include**: order processing, invoicing, credit control, reporting, storage, and logistics to major RTM (ready-to-market) and grocery accounts. **Key caveats:** - **Not a sales or account management service** — Tortuga handles logistics only; they do no sales, account management, forecasting, or ordering guidance. - **Significant working capital hit** — stock is given on consignment, and you don't get paid until 45 days after Tortuga gets paid by the retailer/wholesaler. This can become a serious constraint as you scale. - **Cannot invoice factor** — because invoices and POs are issued to Tortuga or Mangrove (not to you), you cannot use invoice financing to fund growth, meaning you must self-fund the working capital gap. - **Limited capacity** — they have a queue and can only take on a limited number of brands. - **Pricing can be high** — some members found their pricing "punchy" compared to existing arrangements, and pricing should be evaluated against your current setup and scale. Members report good experiences over many years, with the service working well particularly for multi-brand operations (e.g., 5 brands, 15 SKUs across Tortuga). Best suited for businesses with sufficient working capital to absorb the consignment model, rather than those needing active sales support or account management.
What are the real outcomes from supplying subscription box clubs like Craft Gin Club—does it drive repeat customer sales or is it just a one-off volume play?
Subscription box clubs offer exposure but limited repeat-purchase upside. Members who've worked with **Craft Gin Club** report a challenging dynamic: the club positions itself as handling everything post-selection, wanting minimal brand involvement after featuring your product. The business model itself works against repeat sales—subscribers expect something different each month, so featuring your bottle one month doesn't translate to customers buying it again the next. **Key findings from member experience:** - **One-off volume only.** The subscription model ensures each subscriber tries your product once; there's no built-in mechanism for repeat purchases from the same consumer. - **Tightening commercial terms.** Clubs have shifted from paying for stock to seeking free or near-free supply plus co-investment in marketing. Volumes have shrunk significantly from peak. - **Tiered deal structure (unconfirmed).** Members report the club may offer different terms depending on company size: small brands pay cost price, mid-size brands pay cost plus some free allocation, large brands are asked for all-free supply. Parameters aren't entirely clear. - **No direct revenue from consumers.** You don't receive money from end-user purchases; the club buys stock from you at their negotiated rate, and that's the transaction. - **Category saturation risk.** In gin especially, the liquids are increasingly similar, so subscriber loyalty to *your* brand post-feature is unlikely. **Bottom line:** Members suggest treating subscription club placement as a one-time distribution event and brand exposure play, not a customer acquisition or retention channel. Budget accordingly and manage expectations on volume.
Which UK parcel delivery services work best for distributing RTD products?
Members have tested most major UK couriers for RTD distribution with mixed, location-dependent results. No single provider consistently outperforms others, but communication quality and reliability vary significantly by region. Services members have trialled: - **DPD Red** — preferred for communication; members are giving it another chance after issues elsewhere, though experiences vary - **DPD Local** — mixed feedback; some find it "the least smash quota" despite problems, others report poor performance - **APC** — tried but not highlighted as preferred - **Parcelforce** — tested but not recommended - **DX Couriers** — tested but members moved away Members noted that performance appears highly locality-dependent, so courier reliability may vary significantly depending on your distribution region. Communication quality from DPD Red was specifically cited as a strength compared to other options tested.
Are there legitimate distributors in Southeast Asia and China for UK spirits brands, and how should you vet them?
Unsolicited distribution enquiries from lesser-known firms in the region warrant careful vetting before committing. Members have received outreach from firms like **LaLa Wine** (claiming representation in Vietnam, Singapore, Dubai, and China as part of LLMH GROUP), but recommend skepticism even when websites and email addresses appear legitimate. **Key vetting steps:** Request a video introduction call rather than email-only contact; consult your board advisors and industry contacts in the region to verify their track record and reputation—several members found that established advisors had no knowledge of certain firms despite their professional appearance. Members noted concerns with **Charles Durango at OPC Ventures** and chose not to pursue after initial conversations. The lesson: legitimate-looking credentials don't guarantee genuine business relationships or market presence in Asia.
What are dark stores and how do they work as a distribution channel?
Dark stores are rapid-delivery retail hubs—typically 150–300m² commercial spaces in cities that stock 3,000–5,000 SKUs and deliver to surrounding areas within 15 minutes. They represent a modern distribution model focused on speed and convenience in urban markets. **How they work:** - Dark stores occupy small commercial real estate in city centers - Stock a curated, uniform selection of goods (rather than traditional wholesale breadth) - Operate a rapid delivery model, typically 15-minute delivery windows - Focus on high-density urban areas where demand and speed are competitive advantages **UK example:** - **Zapp** — members cited this as a UK dark store operator, establishing the model in the British market **Distribution considerations:** - Members are actively exploring dark store distribution in Europe (particularly Germany), suggesting this channel is becoming relevant for UK drinks founders looking to scale internationally - Unlike traditional distributors, dark stores require a different approach: smaller, faster-moving inventory rather than wholesale-sized orders
What are members' experiences with payment reliability from key distribution platforms?
Members have reported mixed payment performance from major distributors, with recent issues emerging on some platforms. **Farmdrop** — Multiple members reported non-payment despite multiple orders. One member stated "They have never paid us despite ordering 6 times." Several members experienced the same issue simultaneously, with payment delays apparently linked to a new ordering system rollout. Previously the platform had been reliable with punctual payments, suggesting the issue is recent. **Saxon** — One member reported a late/unpaid invoice but successfully resolved it by raising the issue through the Kindred network; Saxon agreed to credit and re-print, and responded quickly once escalated. **General experience** — Members report most platforms stay "all up to date," though occasionally require a chase on late invoices; platforms typically pay quickly once reminded. **Caveat:** Farmdrop's current payment issues appear to be ongoing and systemic rather than isolated. Members should contact their accounts team directly or escalate through the Kindred network if experiencing delays. The platform's cash flow situation may be unstable.
How do you get products into arena accounts and major retail chains through wholesale distributors?
Getting into arena accounts typically requires going through major wholesale distributors. Members' experience: **Matthew Clark (MCW)** — The primary route for many arena accounts; note that Bibendum is part of the C&C group, so MCW listings may be necessary. Be aware that the new listings process is notoriously complex and slow (described as "kafkaesque" by members), and contact points may change frequently. **Majestic** — Members have had success getting replies and pursuing listings directly. **Harrods** — Responsive to direct approaches; one member successfully leveraged a personal connection (former team member who previously worked there) to get a conversation. **Key tactic:** Personal connections and referrals can be valuable—mentioning shared history or mutual contacts may improve your chances of getting through to the right person. **Caveats:** Contacts at major distributors change regularly (one key contact was noted as leaving in January), so expect timelines to shift and relationships to need rebuilding. The process is slow and can feel unresponsive at times.
Should we sell on Amazon through a third-party marketplace or register directly as a vendor through Amazon's Vendor Central?
Most drinks brands in the UK market use **third-party marketplaces** rather than registering as direct Amazon sellers. Examples include **Whisky Ex**, **Master of Malt**, and **31 Dover**, which handle Amazon sales on behalf of smaller producers, reducing admin burden and mitigating delivery compliance risks. If you want to supply Amazon directly, the route is **Amazon Vendor Central**, where you act as a wholesaler supplying stock to Amazon themselves (who then handle Prime fulfilment). Companies like **Hammonds** use this model. Alternatively, you can **self-fulfil through an Amazon seller account** (FBA), managing your own inventory and delivery. **Key trade-off**: Third-party routes save significant admin and reduce fines risk but mean less direct control; Vendor Central and self-fulfilment require more operational complexity but offer more margin and brand control.
What key terms should be included in importer and distributor contracts to protect the brand and ensure performance?
Members have learned through experience that distribution contracts need specific commercial and performance clauses to work effectively. Here's what the community recommends including: **Core commercial terms:** - **Volume by channel** — clarify expected sales volume across different retail/hospitality channels - **KPIs** — define measurable key performance indicators for the distributor - **Support matrix** — specify cash support (per bottle) for each volume bracket to incentivise performance - **Payment terms** — members recommend 45 days from invoice as standard **Contract duration and exit clauses:** - **3-year deal structure** with early termination rights if targets are missed - **Acquisition clause** — if the distributor is acquired, they either let you see out the contract or pay 6–9 months of gross margin as compensation **Performance protections:** - **Minimum sales obligations** — one member successfully negotiated a mid-term renegotiation including minimum performance/sales targets. When the distributor fell ~5,500 9L cases behind forecast, they exercised this clause to secure overdue POs. This is hard to get in initially but valuable if you can. **Contract complexity varies:** Members report ranges from very short informal agreements (used for some export markets with no formal contract) through mid-length documents, to 50-page contracts that took 6 months to negotiate. The detail needed depends on market importance and distributor track record. **Warning:** Members have experienced significant disputes with underperforming distributors. Building in performance clauses and clear KPIs from the start—rather than trying to renegotiate mid-term—helps avoid costly legal conflict. One member described a "very heated legal dialogue" with a key-market distributor; proactive contract design can prevent this.
What address should a UK drinks producer include on product labels—their own, the distributor's, or both?
For UK-produced products sold domestically, you must include a UK address for consumer complaints, but you don't need to include your distributor's address on the label. **Key points:** - **UK address requirement** — UK law requires a UK address on labels so consumers have a point of contact for complaints. This is a legal necessity post-Brexit (previously EU addresses were acceptable). - **Distributor address not required** — While your distributor may request their address appear on labels, it's not a legal requirement. Members advised against including it, as it creates operational friction if you ever change distributors. - **Market-specific rules** — Some markets (particularly outside the UK) have different requirements, such as "imported and distributed by" statements, sometimes requiring stickers. Check legislation for your specific sales territories.
Which importers and distributors are recommended for premium spirits in Singapore?
The community recommended two main distributors for the premium bar scene in Singapore: - **Six Eight Distribution** — praised as reliable and effective for premium spirits placement - **Dyspatchr** — member-owned distributor carrying major portfolios including Sazerac - **La Maison Du Whiskey** — mentioned as an option in the premium market Members suggest reaching out directly via DM for introductions and specific placement opportunities.
Is it worth paying to feature products on wholesaler price lists and printed brochures?
The consensus is that wholesaler brochures deliver poor ROI for most members. Members reported **no measurable uplift in sales** from featuring in printed wholesaler price lists, despite high costs for relatively small ad space. The fundamental issue is relevance—**printed brochures are increasingly ignored** by end users (restaurants, bars), with one member noting they personally threw them straight in the bin. Members also noted that **wholesalers have lost significant customer numbers recently**, reducing the audience reach further. **Cost versus benefit is unattractive**: pricing for brochure placement is expensive relative to the space offered and the actual sales impact. A few members suggested value exists only **if paired with promotional activity or campaigns**, but this remained the minority view. Most members in the discussion found it **not worth pursuing as a standalone tactic**.
What's the lowest acceptable margin for a craft premium brand when negotiating with a larger distributor, and how should founders secure advertising and promotional support?
Before accepting a lower margin, establish what you're receiving in return. The key tactic members recommend is **conditioning margin reductions on increased A&P investment from the distributor** — rather than simply giving away margin, structure the deal so you maintain control over promotional spend allocation. **Recommended approach:** - Don't accept squeezed margins without concrete commitments. Ask upfront what the distributor will deliver in return (advertising, promotional support, shelf placement investment). - **Convert margin concessions into A&P budgets.** Ensure any margin you reduce is explicitly converted into advertising and promotional spend on the distributor's side. - **Maintain co-investment control.** Rather than letting the distributor pocket extra margin, condition the deal on *you* investing additional A&P from your side while they invest from theirs — this gives you visibility and say over where the investment actually goes. - Be wary of distributors simply using extra margins to milk your brand or redirect spend to other products in their portfolio. Members emphasize that the uneven playing field between small craft brands and big brands (in terms of trade spend, refits, and cash support) makes it essential to negotiate visible, contractual promotional commitments rather than accepting margin reductions in hope of support.
How should premium brands approach on-trade distribution, and what are the best tactics for accessing major wholesalers and bar chains?
For premium on-trade placement, members highlight a multi-route approach with clear trade-offs. **Wholesaler routes:** - **Bibendum** and **Amathus** — the standard major wholesalers for high-end London bars, but members warn they have "absurd terms" and often require you to line up multiple venues simultaneously before they'll consider stocking. Tender processes for pub groups may only happen annually. - **Matthew Clark** — owns Bibendum; can sometimes facilitate listings through their "extended range" programme, allowing newer products into their portfolio without full commitment. This route is more expensive for bars than standard listings, and getting a single venue stocked is difficult. - **Specialty Drinks (Whisky Exchange)** — described as "likely easier" than Amathus or Bibendum for niche spirits (whiskies, cognacs, etc.). Members recommend asking the bar's existing wholesaler account managers to push for it as well. - **Master of Malt** — reported to facilitate Matthew Clark orders, though the relationship to Bibendum is unclear. **Direct approach:** - Members strongly recommend pushing to go **direct to high-end bars** where possible, especially in London, as bars are more likely to accept direct listings than going through wholesalers. - This avoids wholesaler friction but requires building relationships bar-by-bar. **Pub group chains:** - Members asked about **Marston's** supply chain access but no detailed tactics emerged in the discussion. **Key caveats:** Wholesalers are described as "a nightmare" with demanding terms and slow tender cycles. For a single venue, direct negotiation is preferable.
What off-trade brokers and distribution partners do members recommend, and how should we evaluate them?
Members have limited but direct experience with off-trade brokers. When seeking reliable partners for distributor relationships, the community recommends: **Direct introductions** — Members actively facilitate introductions to distributors they work with. If you're looking for specific wholesaler contacts (e.g. LWC accounts), reach out directly to members who've already won those accounts; they can provide account contact swaps. **Regional specialists** — For Italian spirits distribution in Northern Italy, members recommend requesting direct introductions via DM rather than cold outreach; at least one member is actively working with Italian distributors and can facilitate connections. **Off-trade broker options** — **South East Bottling** is mentioned as a versatile option for ad hoc broker work. Members also reference **Andy Mallows at Mallows bottlers** as another contact for bottling and related services, though the exact scope of their broker/distribution services isn't detailed in these excerpts. **What to watch for** — One member warned against generic industry events (referencing a 2020 experience) where food buyers dominate and spirits decision-makers are rare and often already locked into long-term contracts, making them poor ROI for new brand acquisition efforts. The strongest signal from the community is that personal introductions and warm intros to established broker contacts are the most effective route; cold outreach to locked-in decision-makers is generally ineffective.
What are the trade-offs between different UK warehouse operators, particularly Codestorm's Dudley facility versus other locations?
Members have raised important considerations when evaluating warehouse operators and their locations. The choice involves balancing cost savings against service quality and operational capability. **Key observations on Codestorm (Dudley):** - **Cost advantage** — pricing is described as "considerably better" compared to previous operators like PHL - **Service quality concerns** — multiple members report that service levels have "dropped significantly" as the operator pursued rapid growth and took on many new brands - **Infrastructure limitations** — the facility still uses pallets on the floor rather than racking systems, which affects storage efficiency and security - **Geographic benefit** — Dudley's central location provides better access to major shipping providers and distribution hubs across the country, an advantage over southern locations like Portsmouth - **Security improvements** — Codestorm has invested in security enhancements, though at least one member noted vulnerabilities remain ("simple to burgle") - **System reliability** — the operator experienced downtime with their operating system (Bibendum), requiring restoration **Critical advice:** Members strongly recommend visiting any warehouse facility in person before committing, as the on-site experience reveals capability gaps that aren't obvious from quotes or contracts. The distance from your office may be secondary to service reliability and infrastructure quality.
What are the main wholesalers or distribution services that can get products into Ocado, aside from Bibendum?
Members currently use two main alternatives to Bibendum for Ocado distribution: - **PW Gates** — offers pallet consolidation services and has a direct relationship with Ocado, managing their parcel consolidation and fulfilment. Visit pwgates.co.uk for details. - **Tortuga** — members recommend reaching out to them as another option for Ocado distribution support. Both services handle the logistics of getting products into Ocado's system, so exploring both may give you options depending on your volume and requirements.
Is ProWein worth attending as a UK drinks producer, and what should we expect from the experience?
Yes, ProWein is worth attending. Members describe it as "the big one" and emphasise its value for meeting international distributors and getting noticed in the market. Members' experience: - **International distributor meetings** — the primary draw; members report it's worth attending specifically for this networking opportunity. - **Exhibiting with peers** — several members attended with co-exhibitors (e.g. exhibiting alongside other brands on shared or nearby stands) to share costs and drive traffic. - **PR value** — attending and exhibiting generates coverage and brand visibility in the trade press. Caveats: The discussion doesn't detail specific costs, stand fees, lead conversion rates, or practical logistics. Members confirm attendance but offer limited detail on ROI or typical visitor volume.
Where can I find a comprehensive list of UK independent retailers (bottle shops, wine shops, delis) to target for distribution?
Members identified two main approaches: **BOWIMI** — A tool with Google integration that can identify and compile bottle shops, wine shops, delis, farm shops and similar independent retailers. Members reported positive experiences and recommend reaching out directly for a demonstration of how it works. **Collaborative Google Drive** — Members suggested creating a shared spreadsheet within the community where members could collectively build and maintain a retailer database, including contact names, estimated sales volumes, and brands already stocked. This approach would leverage collective knowledge across the group. Note: Members were enthusiastic about having access to a comprehensive list, suggesting this is a genuine gap in the market. BOWIMI appears to be the most concrete solution available, though it's unclear whether it's a free or paid service or how complete its coverage is.
What margin requirements do duty-free and airport retailers typically demand?
Duty-free and airport retail channels operate on significantly higher margin expectations than standard retail. **Margin requirements:** - **Duty-free/airport retailers** typically require 65–70% margin on RTD products - **Dublin Airport** specifically requests 70% duty-free margin and 35% DP (distributor price) **RRP considerations:** - Recommended Retail Price must be positioned at approximately 40% lower than the market average to remain competitive in duty-free channels **Context:** These are demanding channels that require both high-margin products and aggressive RRP positioning. Members confirmed these figures are standard expectations when approaching duty-free distribution.
How do you access and tender for major venue group spirit supply contracts like Caprice Holdings?
Caprice Holdings runs formal spirits supply tenders targeting larger-format products (5L BiBs, bag-in-box formats). Members report the group forecasts approximately 250,000 glass bottles across all spirit categories, making it an attractive opportunity for brands with volume capacity and sustainable packaging solutions. **Access and tender mechanics:** - Your importer needs to be "strong enough" to have access to tender documents — direct relationships with the distributor or importer appear critical for receiving the tender paperwork - Brands currently tendering or considering it include **ELLC, Sapling, Duppy, Avallen**, plus own-label products like **Regal Rogue Vermouth** (5L BiBs) and premium rums in 5L format - Tenders are sent out periodically; members reported receiving one a couple of weeks prior to discussion - **Sustainability angle:** pushing larger formats and collectively messaging carbon footprint reduction appears to align with Caprice's priorities **Key takeaway:** Access depends heavily on having an established importer relationship strong enough to be on Caprice's vendor list. Without that, you won't receive tender documentation. Members emphasise this is a meaningful volume opportunity for anyone positioned to supply at scale.
Is there viable demand and market opportunity for a cooperative D2C platform aggregating multiple independent producer brands?
Members see the strategic appeal of a "Farfetch of booze" cooperative model—aggregating indie brands into a central destination to bypass margin-heavy wholesalers—but the community's lived experience suggests significant execution barriers. **Why the idea appeals:** - Cuts out expensive wholesaler markups (vs. the traditional 12%+ commission model) - Single-purchase convenience for customers buying multiple indie brands - Potential to serve both D2C and B2B wholesale channels simultaneously - Comparison: **Eebria** operates a similar dropship model (mostly beer, ~12% commission); **Whiskey Exchange** was approached about hosting an "indie space" but declined, suggesting consumer confusion over the indie positioning **The hard reality members encountered:** - A previous Kindred project (mothballed post-COVID) and **Lassou** both failed to generate meaningful sales despite technical execution and email/social campaigns - **DrinksOne.com** is attempting something similar with wholesale focus (£100 minimum order) but hasn't yet proven D2C viability at scale - Member consensus: the landscape has fundamentally shifted since the COVID e-commerce boom; even major brands with multi-million budgets now struggle with D2C acquisition - **Cost per conversion** is the core blocker—digital marketing spend needed for scale is prohibitively expensive and rarely profitable - Conflicts with members' own DTC channels, diluting individual brand marketing ROI **What *would* change the equation:** - Centralised fulfillment infrastructure (not dropship) - Shared bonded storage, blending, bottling/canning capabilities - Significantly higher marketing budget than previous attempts - A dedicated, well-resourced operator to manage it full-time **Bottom line:** Structural merit exists, but execution requires both capital and specialised retail/marketing expertise. Members warn against underestimating the cost and complexity.
How can Kindred members develop a shared distribution infrastructure and collaborative approach to route-to-market strategy?
Members see strong potential for a collective distribution model that pools knowledge and resources across the group. The concept addresses fragmented individual strategies and could unlock real synergies. **Key opportunities identified:** - **Shared portfolio approach** — Balancing multiple brands across core spirit categories to create stronger market presence - **Consolidated logistics** — Pooling shipments and distribution infrastructure to reduce individual costs - **Collaborative trade show attendance** — Joint representation at international events to share booth costs and visibility - **Shared ambassador funding** — Financing brand ambassadors in core export markets jointly rather than individually - **Joint marketing collaboration** — Coordinating promotional efforts across brands to amplify reach **Current status:** Members recognise the concept as one "a lot of us have considered" and that "a portfolio makes us stronger." The group has discussed how this cluster model could ensure each portfolio is balanced across categories. Interest exists in moving from abstract discussion to practical planning, with members indicating willingness to "have a chat about how we might start such a process and pool some ideas." **Framing note:** Members see the Kindred group's existing collaboration strength ("the spirit collab is so good in this group") as evidence that formalising distribution infrastructure could work. This moves beyond informal knowledge-sharing into structured commercial infrastructure.