Ask the Collective
The questions independent drinks founders ask most — answered. Distilled from years of community knowledge so the good stuff never disappears in the feed again.
What is a good rate of sale (ROS) benchmark for spirits and RTD products in UK retail stores?
Members report that benchmarks vary significantly by product type and retail channel. For grocery stores generally, 1 bottle per store per week is considered a basic benchmark across spirits (alc and non-alc). For RTD cans in grocery, the consensus sits at 4–5 units per store per week as average, though members note RTD ranges between 6–10 units weekly depending on the product. One member reported being targeted at Sainsbury's on a premium tequila (£34) at 4–5 cans per week. Anything over 6 units per week for RTD is considered a great success by one experienced member. Context matters significantly: chiller placement and shelf position drive substantially stronger ROS, as do multi-buy promotions (which account for a large percentage of RTD sales). Tesco Metro locations tend to show notably stronger velocity. Members also noted that Costco turns stock 12+ times per year (fastest in industry), traditional retail closer to 3–5 times annually, and that buyer profitability calculations—gross margin after promotions and investment—now often matter as much as raw volume in securing listings.
Which consumer shows and trade events should we exhibit at throughout the year for product sampling and direct sales?
Members recommend a mix of dedicated food and drink consumer fairs and seasonal events, with proven returns on investment. The key is choosing shows that align with your product category and price point. **Proven shows:** - **BBC Good Food Show** — strong performer; one member sold 820 bottles of their £20 (70cl) product at the winter edition and 530 at summer, generating significant revenue - **Ideal Home Show / Eat&Drink Festival** (runs late November–early December at Olympia) — described as "a must attend" with "great return" for spirits brands; typically sells bottled product around the £30 retail price point **Key planning points:** - Clarify before committing: whether you can sell ready-made cocktails, bottles for off-licence, or both - Understand stand setup costs and requirements upfront - Track sales volume and retail price to compare ROI across events - Consider creating a shared member list of annual events and feedback by category, so brands can learn from each other's experiences at different shows **Caveat:** Members are still collecting comprehensive year-round event data. The above reflects confirmed recent experience; a more complete calendar is being compiled by the community.
How should you structure wholesale, retail, bar, and ecommerce pricing when selling through multiple channels?
The key principle is to avoid channel conflict by keeping pricing aligned across wholesalers and retailers, then building your model backwards from RRP. Many large UK wholesalers (Matthew Clark, LWC, Carlsberg, Molson Coors) don't supply retailers, so don't assume a traditional retail-first model. **Pricing structure for spirits (example: £40 RRP):** - £40 RRP / 1.2 = £33.33 exc VAT (your net sell-out price) - Apply 25% retail/wholesaler margin: £33.33 × (1 – 0.25) = £25 Wholesale Selling Price (WSP) - Subtract duty (c.£9 for a 70cl spirit at 40% ABV) = £16 net WSP - Typical gross margin target: 65%, which yields ~£5.60 COGS **Key caveats and variations:** - Gross margins vary by channel: 45% for retailers/wholesalers down to 10% in some cases - **Exclusive distributors** typically require 20–30% gross margin on net sales (can be higher or lower depending on volumes) - Wine, RTD, and beer margins differ significantly from spirits - **Direct-to-bar pricing:** Set this at the wholesaler sell-out price (£33.33 in the example above) to avoid undercutting wholesale customers. Some members set it between wholesale and ecommerce prices. - **Independent retailers:** Price at the same level as direct-to-bars (the wholesaler sell-out price), as they typically order smaller quantities - **One unified price across wholesalers and retailers** is strongly recommended, especially when companies operate multiple channels or face buyouts (Matthew Clark/Booker/Tesco scenarios). Members warned that having different pricing models for different channels creates exposure during consolidation and can be "a world of pain." You can always add retroactive incentives or volume discounts without changing base pricing. **Important warning:** Major acquisitions in distribution (e.g., Bargain Booze buying MCW, Tesco buying Booker) have historically created significant problems for brands with inconsistent pricing across channels.
How should indie drinks brands approach pricing strategy—setting wholesale discounts, communicating retail price increases, and managing annual wholesale price hikes?
Pricing strategy for indie brands involves three main challenges: wholesale discount structures, communicating retail price increases to consumers, and managing annual wholesale price rises. **Wholesale discount structures and RRP enforcement** - Members recommend working backwards from your recommended retail price (RRP ex-VAT) to set wholesale costs. A **20–30% discount** to RRP is typical starting territory, though this varies by retailer and volume. - Online players like **Master of Malt** consistently undercut RRP due to their margin structure; this is a common industry issue. You cannot legally dictate retail prices—only recommend them—so "RRP" is advisory only under UK competition law. - If a wholesaler is damaging your brand perception through heavy discounting, the option is to raise the price you charge *them*, but be prepared that they may drop the listing. Members report this is a negotiation point, not a mandate. - Contact at Master of Malt: **Julie Trewren** (julie.trewren@masterofmalt.com), ex-Matthew Clark buyer, joined by **Lisa Halstead** as her deputy. **Retail price increases and consumer communication** - The way price increases are communicated to consumers is critical. Members suggest adding modest amounts per bottle (e.g., £1) rather than large jumps, and explaining the cost drivers clearly. - One member who had not taken a price increase for 9 years (at Don Papa) found their first increase was too cautious in hindsight. Major brands are more assertive; for small indies, weigh whether a price increase or margin erosion is more painful long-term. **Annual wholesale price increases** - Most wholesalers require price change notifications by early October for January 1st implementation. - General principle: costs rise, prices should rise; holding back builds long-term margin problems. Buyers will always reject increases initially—that's their negotiating role. - You **cannot discuss price increase levels** with competitors (this breaches UK competition law on cartels and price-fixing). Each brand must set increases independently based on their own cost movements. - Recent inflation has stabilised dry goods after double-digit increases; French importers are estimating **5% maximum** price maintenance depending on volume and negotiations. **New product pricing research** - For launching new products, members recommend **Simon at SH Foodie** (simon@shfoodie.com), who conducts tabletop trials with a few hundred units and is described as helpful and collaborative. This has been useful for brands like Bloody Drinks. **Caveats** - Do not discuss specific price increase percentages with other brands—this is illegal under competition law. - Wholesalers operate on different margin structures than traditional retailers; accept that online discounting is difficult to control.
What are the standard fees for getting a spirits brand listed at major UK retail chains like Matthew Clark and Alchemist, and what negotiation room exists?
Matthew Clark charges **£500 per SKU per depot** for listings. With approximately 11 depots in their network, a full national listing typically costs around £5,000 total per SKU—though members report this can be negotiated down significantly depending on circumstances. **Key negotiation tactics:** - **Commit to all depots at once** — committing to the full national roll-out gives you negotiating leverage to reduce or waive fees entirely - **Emphasise category need** — if you can argue the product is essential for those depots' ranges, you can push for no fee - **Use existing relationships** — members report obtaining listings "for free" when they had national account status or strong brand recognition (one member cited a Marco Pierre White listing that secured 2 SKUs across all depots with no charge) - **Contact** — Guy Dolden (Guy.dolden@hillsprospect.com) at Hills Prospect was mentioned as a useful contact **Caveats:** Fees appear to be climbing and costs can mount quickly, especially when adding stock incrementally (one member noted Alchemist listings "costing us more and more"). The £500-per-depot figure is current as of the discussion but may have shifted since. Negotiation success seems highly dependent on brand strength and whether you're approaching as a new entrant or existing account holder.
Who are the key retail buyers and contacts to target for UK drinks listings, and how responsive are they?
Finding and contacting major UK retail buyers is challenging—many are notoriously unresponsive to outreach. Members have identified several buyers worth targeting, though persistence and alternative contact methods may be needed. **Key contacts members have named:** - **Dawn Davies** — Whisky Exchange / Specialty Drinks - **Nick Bell** — Harvey Nichols - **Nick Flemming** — Harrods - **John Vine** — Waitrose - **Chris Appleby** — Enoteca (reported as good to deal with) - **Alice Fishman** — Previously assistant buyer at Wholefoods (though members report she is unresponsive) **Caveats and warnings:** - Many major retail buyers are "literally uncontactable" and do not respond to email outreach (members reported sending multiple emails with no reply). - Waitrose and Wholefoods buyers in particular have been flagged as difficult to reach; one member joked about extreme persistence tactics. - The group expressed frustration that some buyers operate as if "they wouldn't survive in the brutal world of entrepreneurship." - Chris Appleby at Enoteca is one of the few explicitly noted as responsive and good to deal with, suggesting he may be an easier entry point. Members did not provide specific listing requirements, onboarding processes, or minimum order thresholds in the excerpts.
What payment and returns terms should be negotiated with major retail distributors like Venus, and what leverage points exist?
Members report that major retail distributors typically insist on sale-or-return (SOR) terms and are inflexible—one member was told flatly that if they didn't accept Venus's SOR terms, the distributor simply wouldn't list them. Several members have accepted SOR with Venus and other major groups, though one warned that during market shocks (e.g. Covid), distributors may return stock and invoice unexpectedly. **Negotiation tactics:** - **Assess your leverage**: If you're supplying a high-profile flagship account or have significant volume, push back harder on SOR—distributors are more flexible with larger partners - **Propose partial payment structures**: Suggest a 50/50 split or graduated payment terms based on projected initial depot sales volume, rather than pure SOR - **Add shelf-life clauses**: Insert a condition that the distributor cannot return stock with less than X months remaining shelf life—this limits their ability to return aged inventory - **Understand the buyer mentality**: Distributors like Venus operate transactionally and "aren't in the business of making friends." Smaller operators buying to specific POs are less risky than large SOR commitments - **Accept SOR pragmatically**: If the distributor won't budge and the opportunity is valuable, SOR may be the cost of entry, though members note payment eventually arrives **Caveats**: SOR exposes you to return risk and timing uncertainty, especially during market downturns. Terms vary by distributor; smaller accounts may be safer bets than major chains.
What are the main distribution channels and partners that Mitchells & Butlers use to stock drinks products?
Mitchells & Butlers primarily use two routes to market: - **Tradeteam** — the main direct RTM channel. If M&B want to list you, they will typically set you up with Tradeteam directly as part of the process. - **Bibendum** — historically supplied M&B before Tradeteam became standard, though this may be less current. Worth exploring if direct routes aren't available. Members note that M&B sometimes proactively reach out to brands asking what RTMs they use, which can be a positive sign of interest. However, be prepared for slow response times and limited visibility into orders—one member joked the channel can feel like "shouting into the void." Getting listed is valuable but requires patience and clear communication through the established channels.
What is the process for getting listed with major UK retail chains like Majestic, Waitrose, and Ocado?
Getting listed with major UK retailers requires a multi-step approach combining direct contact with buyers and grassroots validation. **Key contacts and routes:** - **Majestic** — Direct buyer contact: jacob.biggs@majestic.co.uk (note: neither this contact nor john.storm@majestic.co.uk are consistently responsive) - **Waitrose and Ocado** — Community members have experience but were seeking to share learnings on specific routing; no single universal contact shared - **Mitchells & Butlers venues** — Use **Tradeteam** as their distributor (partly direct access) **Recommended tactic:** Members report success by getting a dozen individual store managers to taste the product and provide feedback, then following this up with the central buying team. This grassroots validation appears to carry weight in conversations with buyers. **Caveats:** Direct buyer emails are often unresponsive; the grassroots store-level feedback loop is the more reliable entry point. Getting listed is challenging and retention is not guaranteed—some community members have been listed for many years and subsequently delisted.
What are realistic sales volumes and ROI for RTD products in major UK grocery retailers like WH Smith?
RTD sales performance in major UK grocery retailers is challenging and heavily dependent on retailer terms. **WH Smith** is one of the most expensive entry points in the market: expect a £20–30k upfront investment in their marketing suite, with listing fees around £500 per store. Return on sales (ROS) is typically 6–8 cans per store per SKU per week in regular stores, though higher in travel locations (train stations, airports). Over a year, this translates to roughly 600 cans per store per SKU annually—a volume that few brands can profitably sustain at standard wholesale margins. Members report that WH Smith's alcohol licence expansion has been slow despite promises (one member noted only 35 of a promised 120 licences materialised). Several members have terminated WH Smith contracts after finding the marketing investment unrecoverable relative to sales. The general consensus is that only established brands with significant scale (e.g., MOTH) can make the unit economics work. **LCB offers EDI integration** if you proceed. Key caveat: one member advised "certainly not rushing back soon" after their WH Smith experience, citing the gap between promised and actual performance.
What pricing structure should producers, wholesalers, and retailers use to ensure adequate margins at each level in the spirits supply chain?
Members shared a community-created pricing model spreadsheet that maps out margin requirements across the supply chain when working backwards from a retail RRP. **Key resource:** The community maintains a shared Google spreadsheet that calculates required COGS, wholesale, and retail price points based on a target RRP and desired margin percentages at each level. This allows producers to determine what manufacturing cost they need to hit to ensure wholesalers and retailers each take their cut. **Important consideration:** The spreadsheet uses markup calculations for wholesale pricing (e.g., dividing by 1.2 to reflect a 20% markup), which differs from the margin calculation method used for retail. Members note this distinction matters—markup and margin are calculated differently. Clarify whether your business model thinks in terms of markup or margin percentage, as this affects how you apply the formula. **Access:** Request the current version from the community (the spreadsheet link is maintained collectively and may be updated). Members are actively refining the model and discussing the mechanics, so asking in the group will get you the latest version with any corrections applied. **Caveats:** The calculations assume standard VAT treatment and work backwards from RRP. The exact margins required may vary by channel (independent retailers vs. multiple retailers), product category, and distribution method, so treat the model as a framework to adapt rather than a fixed rule.
What are dark stores and how do they work as a distribution channel?
Dark stores are rapid-delivery retail hubs—typically 150–300m² commercial spaces in cities that stock 3,000–5,000 SKUs and deliver to surrounding areas within 15 minutes. They represent a modern distribution model focused on speed and convenience in urban markets. **How they work:** - Dark stores occupy small commercial real estate in city centers - Stock a curated, uniform selection of goods (rather than traditional wholesale breadth) - Operate a rapid delivery model, typically 15-minute delivery windows - Focus on high-density urban areas where demand and speed are competitive advantages **UK example:** - **Zapp** — members cited this as a UK dark store operator, establishing the model in the British market **Distribution considerations:** - Members are actively exploring dark store distribution in Europe (particularly Germany), suggesting this channel is becoming relevant for UK drinks founders looking to scale internationally - Unlike traditional distributors, dark stores require a different approach: smaller, faster-moving inventory rather than wholesale-sized orders
Where can I find a comprehensive list of UK independent retailers (bottle shops, wine shops, delis) to target for distribution?
Members identified two main approaches: **BOWIMI** — A tool with Google integration that can identify and compile bottle shops, wine shops, delis, farm shops and similar independent retailers. Members reported positive experiences and recommend reaching out directly for a demonstration of how it works. **Collaborative Google Drive** — Members suggested creating a shared spreadsheet within the community where members could collectively build and maintain a retailer database, including contact names, estimated sales volumes, and brands already stocked. This approach would leverage collective knowledge across the group. Note: Members were enthusiastic about having access to a comprehensive list, suggesting this is a genuine gap in the market. BOWIMI appears to be the most concrete solution available, though it's unclear whether it's a free or paid service or how complete its coverage is.
What are the real outcomes from supplying subscription box clubs like Craft Gin Club—does it drive repeat customer sales or is it just a one-off volume play?
Subscription box clubs offer exposure but limited repeat-purchase upside. Members who've worked with **Craft Gin Club** report a challenging dynamic: the club positions itself as handling everything post-selection, wanting minimal brand involvement after featuring your product. The business model itself works against repeat sales—subscribers expect something different each month, so featuring your bottle one month doesn't translate to customers buying it again the next. **Key findings from member experience:** - **One-off volume only.** The subscription model ensures each subscriber tries your product once; there's no built-in mechanism for repeat purchases from the same consumer. - **Tightening commercial terms.** Clubs have shifted from paying for stock to seeking free or near-free supply plus co-investment in marketing. Volumes have shrunk significantly from peak. - **Tiered deal structure (unconfirmed).** Members report the club may offer different terms depending on company size: small brands pay cost price, mid-size brands pay cost plus some free allocation, large brands are asked for all-free supply. Parameters aren't entirely clear. - **No direct revenue from consumers.** You don't receive money from end-user purchases; the club buys stock from you at their negotiated rate, and that's the transaction. - **Category saturation risk.** In gin especially, the liquids are increasingly similar, so subscriber loyalty to *your* brand post-feature is unlikely. **Bottom line:** Members suggest treating subscription club placement as a one-time distribution event and brand exposure play, not a customer acquisition or retention channel. Budget accordingly and manage expectations on volume.
What is the experience with temporary special event listings at major UK retailers, and how do location and seasonal timing affect sales performance?
**Summary:** Members have run temporary special event programmes at Costco UK, which typically involve 2-week listings with in-store sampling stands. Location and season are critical factors affecting performance. **Performance and structure:** - **Costco UK Special Events** — Members report these are 2-week temporary listings with a stand for sampling; no charge to the brand, but Costco only purchases stock actually sold (sale-or-return basis) - **Q4 timing** — Seasonal impact is significant; Q4 special events performed very well for one member - **Scale example** — One member ran 155 dates across all 28 Costco depots, selling 1-litre bottles of a 33% liqueur and averaged approximately 60 bottles per site per day **Practical requirements:** - **Location selection** — Pick sites close to your production/base to reduce logistics burden - **Labour and hours** — Be prepared for setup from 7am Thursday through 9pm closing, working continuously until Sunday evening; this is hard work and requires sustained staffing - **Stock management** — Bring a full pallet for display if transporting stock yourself; Costco operates on sale-or-return, so you manage inventory risk **Key caveat:** Location and season massively impact results, so site selection and timing are critical to ROI.
What is the typical timeline from initial buyer contact to securing shelf placement in major UK supermarkets?
Members' experiences with supermarket listing timelines vary dramatically, ranging from 3.5 to 7 years from first conversation to shelf placement. **Listing timeline realities:** - Members reported timeframes between **3.5 and 7 years** from initial contact to actual shelf listing at major grocers like Waitrose - One member noted the process "didn't exist" initially (suggesting product development or business setup was also part of the timeline) **Getting the first meeting:** - **Breaking into buyer conversations remains the biggest bottleneck** — members describe experiences of "a ghost town of unanswered emails" and difficulty securing an initial meeting to even present their proposition - One member mentioned **£30k listing fees** as a potential route (though this comment was made somewhat facetiously in the group chat) **Caveats:** The small sample size and tongue-in-cheek tone of some responses suggest these are anecdotal experiences. The variation (3.5–7 years) indicates the timeline depends heavily on product category, buyer relationship, and market conditions. Getting that crucial first buyer conversation appears to be the real challenge, not the negotiation timeline itself.
Is a barcode required for 5L bag-in-box packaging?
A barcode is not a legal requirement for bag-in-box packaging, but members strongly recommend including one to avoid costly problems down the line. **Key points:** - **Not legally mandatory** — but treat it as essential in practice - **Required for retail placement** — supermarkets and multiple retailers will not stock products without barcodes; independent retailers may accept them - **Print before you need it** — members shared a cautionary tale of a major brand (Beavertown) receiving their first supermarket order only to discover thousands of cans had no barcodes. They spent a week reprinting and hand-sticking labels on every unit before delivery could proceed - **Cheap insurance** — the cost of adding a barcode upfront is negligible compared to the expense of reprinting labels and re-sticking stock if a retail opportunity suddenly appears - **Consider sticker option** — if barcode space or label design is tight, a barcode sticker can be applied later, but only as a last resort **Caveats:** Members emphasised that redundant stock and emergency reprints are not only costly but also risk missing delivery windows and losing orders. Print barcodes from the start.
How should I structure ownership when running both a retail/bar space and a brand to maximize margins while protecting both entities?
The optimal structure depends on your primary goal: liability protection, margin optimization for investors, or operational flexibility. **Holding company structure with separate trading, retail, and brand entities** — Members recommend a group structure with a holding company at the top, separate trading/operating entities, a dedicated trademark/brand company, and a retail/venue company. This allows you to ring-fence risk while keeping the group consolidated for investor reporting. **Capitalization strategy for lease obligations** — If operating under a separate retail entity with no personal guarantee on the lease, ensure the entity is sufficiently capitalized upfront so landlords won't require group guarantees. You can upstream cash to the parent group once established, protecting the group from venue-specific liabilities. **Operating as a single entity initially, then separating** — When taking on an established venue with existing revenue, members suggest operating as one business initially to capture the full retail margin and bar take (helping fund other opportunities), then restructuring later once the operation is proven. This approach also avoids landlord friction—some property owners may resist granting leases to newly-formed entities. **Key consideration: lease structure** — The lease guarantee position is critical. If you're paying rent to an existing landlord as a bar operator with no direct lease involvement, this simplifies separation. However, if the group must guarantee any lease, separate capitalization becomes essential to make that guarantee unnecessary. **Sophisticated investors view group structures pragmatically** — Investors typically don't care whether your operations are in one entity or five, so long as the group economics are clear and risk is appropriately contained. Members recommend discussing the specific lease guarantee position and capitalization with your accountant and lawyer before deciding between immediate separation or phased restructuring.
Are retail gift sets economically viable as a product strategy?
Retail gift sets are generally not a strong margin play and carry significant hidden costs that often make them uneconomical. **The core issue:** While you achieve similar cash margin to a single bottle on spirits, the gross margin is worse due to cardboard, assembly labour, and postage breakage. Members recommend approaching gift sets as a **brand-awareness and seasonal-peak tactic** (Christmas, gifting occasions) rather than a margin driver. **Key challenges members flagged:** - **Assembly costs** — either internal labour (time-consuming) or outsourced (paid labour eats margin) - **Cardboard costs** — expensive in small volumes; the temptation to over-order at volume discounts often leads to dead stock and writeoffs - **Postage breakage** — products easily break in transit, increasing returns and goodwill costs - **Poor sell-through** — one member ordered 1,000 units for Christmas and sold only 100, resulting in a net loss overall - **Retailer margin squeeze** — if you sell a gift pack at £11 wholesale, it typically lands on shelf at £25, meaning retailers take substantial margin - **Market resistance** — gifting over the £20 price point is a tough sell in the current market (mini gift sets are the exception, showing growth) **When to consider them:** Only if the strategic goal is tapping into predictable gifting peaks or building brand awareness, not margin. Members suggest treating them as a seasonal, limited-run tactic rather than a core SKU.
What are the realistic sales outcomes and buyer engagement opportunities from retail pop-up platforms like Raye?
Retail pop-up platforms like Raye should be viewed primarily as a **buyer showcase opportunity** rather than a direct-to-consumer sales channel. Members report modest direct sales (one example: around 36 units for a functional mushroom beverage at a Raye spot), but the real value lies in connecting with retail buyers. **Raye** regularly brings buyers down to events—members confirmed seeing 3 Waitrose buyers booked for a single edition—and offers space to run tasting events in central locations. The platform works best if you treat it as a networking and retail placement opportunity. Members also recommend confirming customer demand before committing resources, and some have hosted their own sample sessions at Raye locations to meet both the store team and potential stockists. For in-store tasting procurement costs at major retailers (e.g. Sainsbury's via Nectar 360), members indicated this information is available but recommend reaching out directly or via DM to get current pricing from those who've recently managed such placements.
What are typical costs for promotional activity and marketing support at major UK supermarket retailers like Waitrose and Tesco, and how much do they actually impact sales velocity?
Supermarket marketing and promotional costs are significant but members report mixed ROI. Most agree that paid activity primarily benefits the retailer's P&L rather than driving meaningful sales uplift for brands. **Costs:** - **Waitrose magazine features** — approximately £6k per placement - General promotional activity (display, in-store activation beyond price discounting) described as "a lot" with no standard pricing given **Impact on sales velocity:** - **Magazine features** — Members report these generate awareness but don't meaningfully move the needle on sales - **Aisle-end displays and seasonal promo** — One member tested this at Tesco over Christmas and saw no uplift versus standard shelf placement with category promotion - **Shelf display presence** — Considered slightly more effective than magazine features because it puts product directly in front of consumers, though impact remains modest - **In-store activation** — Generates some awareness and helps retailer's P&L, but members sceptical of direct sales correlation **Strategic considerations:** - Members use a simple ROI formula: (Rate of Sale × Gross Profit) + A&P Budget = listing decision - Paid promotional activity can be useful defensively to "buy your way out of a scary range review" rather than to drive growth - This pattern applies to both large and challenger brands **Overall:** Members advise treating supermarket marketing as a cost of maintaining shelf space and retailer relationships rather than expecting direct sales acceleration. Results may vary significantly depending on category and seasonal timing.
What platforms and approaches do members use for accessing and bidding on retail and hospitality procurement tenders?
Members actively use dedicated tender platforms to access procurement opportunities from restaurant groups and hospitality venues. The community has direct experience winning accounts through these channels. **Platforms:** - **EzTenda** (www.EzTenda.com) — Members have successfully bid on and won accounts through this platform. It's been used to host significant tender campaigns (e.g. a 700 × 9-litre case spirit tender for a restaurant group), and members report winning new hospitality accounts through the site. **Approach:** Members actively monitor tenders posted on these platforms, bid competitively, and share opportunities with the wider community to alert others to upcoming campaigns.
What are Costco UK's pricing model and margin structure, and how does it compare to traditional supermarkets?
Costco UK operates on a fixed, low-margin model fundamentally different from traditional supermarkets. Members report **a maximum margin of 10–14% added to cost price** across all products—significantly lower than standard retail. This is the defining feature of their business model and applies consistently. Key characteristics: - **Membership-only access** — prices are not advertised outside stores; membership gates the customer base - **Volume-focused** — members have achieved strong volume sales (e.g., 3–4K cases/month at peak for spirits brands) - **Price monitoring risk** — the major retailers actively watch Costco prices, so if you supply multiple retailers, pricing misalignment can "come back to bite" you and trigger issues with other stockists - **International expansion possible** — members have successfully done Costco international pieces alongside UK sales The low fixed margin means Costco is a cash-and-carry/discount model, not a traditional supermarket. Success here depends on volume: the tight margin only works if you can shift significant quantity. Be cautious if you already supply major multiples, as Costco's prices may undercut them and create channel conflict.
How should we position our retail price to account for price barriers, competitor pricing, and margin vs. volume trade-offs?
Price positioning requires balancing consumer perception of value at retail price points against your cost structure and margin targets. **Key considerations:** - **Identify price barriers in your category.** Premium gin, for example, has a perceived ceiling around £30; positioning at £29.99 vs. £30.99 can significantly impact consumer acceptance and volume, even if the cost difference is small. - **Match quality to price point first.** The biggest challenge at launch is ensuring your product quality genuinely justifies the initial retail price in terms of perceived value for money, rather than setting price purely on production costs. - **Be prepared to accept lower margin to stay under a ceiling.** If rising COGs would push you above a key price barrier (e.g., £30 for premium gin), members recommend a commercial decision to reduce margin and stay sub-barrier rather than jump into a lower-volume, higher-price segment. - **Don't live in fear of breaching barriers as costs rise.** Eventually, price barriers break down as most competitors face the same cost pressures. Balance and consideration matter, but don't be afraid to increase price when needed. - **Remember volume vs. premium trade-off.** Higher volumes exist at lower price points (e.g., premium gin vs. super-premium gin), so a price increase may reduce unit sales but improve margin structure. **Caveats:** Price positioning is iterative and tied to retail strategy. Even if you're not selling direct to retailers initially, members recommend thinking about retail shelf price from the outset.
What bar setup does Costco require for promotional events, and where can you source it cost-effectively?
Costco has specific requirements for in-store promotional bar setups and typically rejects standard pop-up display stands. Members report that sourcing compliant setups can be challenging, but **Display Wizard** (specifically their Finesse Portable Exhibition Counter range: https://www.displaywizard.co.uk/pop-up-counters/finesse-portable-exhibition-counter/ and https://www.displaywizard.co.uk/finesse-promotional-counter/) has been approved by Costco and used successfully for extended campaigns (one member ran 155 days without issue). Some Costco representatives may initially push back, so persistence in discussing your setup choice with the buyer is worthwhile. Some vendors resort to having local handy people custom-build setups, but this is not the only option. Members recommend pushing back with evidence of approved solutions rather than accepting that custom local builds are mandatory. Note: Costco contacts rotate between team members managing approvals, so you may be communicating with different people on email.
What margin do specialty retailers typically expect on a 750ml bottle priced at £15?
Standard retail margin expectations for a £15 750ml bottle sit at **15–25%**, according to members with direct experience in specialty retail placement.
What is the process and cost structure for special event placements at major warehouse retailers?
Warehouse retailers typically use a Sale or Return (SOR) model for event placements—you supply stock but only pay for what actually sells, so there are no upfront placement fees. **Logistics and setup:** - Stock must be delivered on a full pallet for display purposes - Setup typically runs Thursday 7am through Sunday 9pm - You'll need to staff the display yourself throughout the event period - Selecting sites close to your location reduces travel burden **Key caveat:** This is physically demanding work requiring long hours on-site over the entire event weekend. Only commit if you have the capacity to staff the placement yourself.
What payment terms and credit risks should I be aware of when supplying directly to specialty wine and drinks retailers?
Direct supply to specialty retailers requires careful credit management. Members have flagged significant payment delay risks with certain major retailers: - **Beerhive/BW** — Known for very slow invoice settlement; members report payment delays of 8 months or longer, with multiple complaints from the community about extended payment cycles. The key takeaway: negotiate payment terms carefully upfront and be prepared for extended credit periods with established retail chains. Members recommend treating credit risk as a serious factor in your supply agreements.
How can I reduce delivery costs for pallet shipments into major retail chains like Waitrose?
Members recommend bypassing expensive LCB (presumably a logistics provider) delivery costs by using third-party pallet distribution providers for deliveries into major retail accounts. **Third-party pallet providers:** - **GC Distribution** — members report using them for daily deliveries into major retail chains. Contact: rob@gcdistributionltd.co.uk The approach is to maintain your own account with the retailer (e.g. Waitrose) but arrange independent logistics rather than using the retailer's preferred/mandated carrier, which typically charges premium rates. Members confirmed this works and offers meaningful cost savings versus going through the retailer's own logistics network.
What are the key contacts and processes for getting products into major retail venues?
Getting products into major retail chains requires identifying the right buyer and, in some cases, working through established distributors. Here's what members have shared about specific venues: - **Citizen M** — No longer has a dedicated on-site buyer; Amsterdam is now running procurement. If you're already working with **Enotria** (their distributor), communicate through Leo who handles the Citizen M account. - **Tennents (C&C)** — Contact via phone on 0845 601 5959. - **Selfridges (food hall/booze)** — Neil McDonald is the wine, beer and spirits buyer (recently appointed). There isn't a separate buyer for alcohol; it goes through the same person as other food hall categories. **Key tactic:** If a retailer uses a distributor (like Enotria), routing orders through the distributor's contact is more effective than approaching the retailer directly, especially if buyer contact details have become outdated. **Caveat:** Buyer contacts and responsibilities can shift; members recommend verifying current information before outreach, as roles change frequently.
What listing fees should we expect from major UK retail distributors like Matthew Clark, and should they be charged per depot or per SKU?
Matthew Clark typically charges a one-off listing fee to set up a new product, rather than recurring fees. The fee structure is negotiable. **Fee structure:** - Members report being quoted **£500 per SKU per depot**, which one member described as "punchy" (expensive) - However, another member successfully negotiated their listing fee to be **per SKU only, not per depot**—meaning you don't need to activate or pay for every distribution depot - The fee is a one-time setup cost; members report never being charged again after initial listing **Practical advice:** - Negotiate the fee structure before accepting. The per-depot model can stack costs significantly; pushing for a single per-SKU fee is viable and has been achieved by other members - Matthew Clark can be a valuable long-term customer despite upfront costs—members report being "well worth it" and having strong ongoing relationships - If you're launching multiple SKUs (e.g. a new can range), factor listing fees into your launch budget
Is the Farmshop & Deli Show at the NEC worth exhibiting at for product placement and buyer meetings?
Members who have exhibited at the Farmshop & Deli Show at the NEC report it as a worthwhile investment for meeting key retail buyers. One member exhibited pre-Covid (2019) and secured a Co-op listing as a direct result. The show is described as "very good" by multiple members who have attended. Members recommend clarifying with the organisers whether to book the self-serve or standard exhibition package, as this will affect your booth setup and support level.
What profit-on-return percentage do major UK retailers like Waitrose expect for premium spirits?
Waitrose expects **30% POR (Profit on Return)** for premium spirits. This is the baseline expectation members have confirmed with the retailer. No additional negotiation tactics or alternatives were discussed in the community thread.
How do you identify and approach new retail accounts when a distributor won't share their customer list?
Distributors typically won't hand over their full customer lists, so members recommend a direct approach: research which accounts the distributor already supplies, then contact them directly. **Networking and referrals** are the fastest route—ask existing customers within a distributor's portfolio if they know other accounts in the same group or region. For example, if you identify a distributor venue that's part of a small group (like a chain or hospitality group), track down other locations and approach them independently. Members have had success with this tactic by asking existing customers for introductions or details of sister venues they know are supplied by the same distributor. **Trade shows** (e.g. Prowein) are also valuable for building direct relationships with potential accounts and bypassing distributor gatekeeping altogether. The key is to work outward from your first placement: once you have one account within a distributor's network, use that foothold to identify and contact adjacent venues directly rather than waiting for the distributor to cooperate.
Which major UK distributors are currently accepting new spirits product listings?
Based on recent community experience, distributor availability is highly selective and changes frequently. **Current status:** - **MMI** — Not currently accepting new listings (as of the discussion date) **Alternative route:** Members have successfully placed products directly with premium retailers rather than relying on traditional distributor networks. One member secured a month-long exclusive listing with **Harvey Nichols** for their spirits product, which provided a direct-to-retail route without going through a distributor middleman. **Caveat:** The community notes that distributor capacity is limited and gates are often closed. Direct retailer relationships may be more productive than pursuing distributors at present. Members should expect rejections and should consider approaching premium independent retailers and department stores as an alternative to traditional wholesale distribution channels.
What are the costs and alternatives for Ocado Brandbank listing requirements?
Ocado requires product data to be uploaded via **Brandbank**, which is owned by Nielsen IQ. The platform charges per SKU for listing and data management. **Costs and negotiation:** - Standard rate is approximately **£128 per SKU**, though members have received renewal quotes significantly higher (up to £1500 reported) - Members report this varies and recommend querying your account manager if the quote seems disproportionate to your SKU count - Nielsen IQ (the owners) are noted as aggressive on payment collection **Alternatives and workarounds:** - No confirmed way to bypass Brandbank entirely for Ocado listings has been identified by members - However, members recommend challenging unexpectedly high quotes directly with your Ocado account manager, as costs should scale with SKU volume - Several members noted frustration that they had already completed all product work (images, copy, story) themselves, only to pay Brandbank for uploading it — suggesting the service may feel expensive relative to actual value added **Caveat:** While members universally acknowledge Brandbank is mandatory for Ocado, and some have successfully negotiated or questioned their specific quotes, there is no known alternative platform or method to list on Ocado without using it.